AIBU to wonder if sleep training negatively impacts a child (attachment theory)?

[user666555]

Hi,

So this isn't a thread to bash anyone who has sleep trained. I'm genuinely curious of people's experiences with sleep training. I'd genuinely like to hear people's opinions especially those that have sleep trained.

A big part of my degree was child psychology focused and I learnt about the attachment theory and how children require stable attachments with their caregivers during the early years of their lives in order to go on to form secure attachments. However, I'm curious as to whether sleep training impacts this? I understand that in hindsight it's a small part of a child's life where they're being taught to self soothe. However, everything I've always been taught in relation to psychology has always focused on the importance of being present and not allowing a child to stay in distress in those early years (if you can help it, of course this isn't always possible).

So my question is, AIBU to wonder if sleep training impacts children in the long term?

Again, I'm not opposed to gentle sleep training (at an appropriate age of course) however, I've always wondered this.

P.S. I was once having a conversation with my DDs health visitor who was telling me about babies who have mums that do not tend to their cries (often due to drug abuse/abuse in general) and those babies stop crying as much. She said this isn't because the babies have soothed themselves. It's because the babies learnt that their needs won't be met by crying so they developed avoidant attachment styles as they felt as though their needs are unheard. She mentioned that work has to be done with these babies and children to allow them to rely on caregivers again - I know this isn't the same but I found this so heartbreaking.

@Ithinkitstimeforbed cry it out isn’t sleep training. And 4 months is far too young! I waited until 8-9.

I sleep trained my two and they're both happy, well-balanced kids.

The alternative would have been to keep plodding along, getting more tired and angry by the day and probably indirectly taking it out on the kids - needing more breaks from them, losing my temper quickly, feeling intensely frustrated for long periods of time. I would argue that that would have had more potential to cause psychological damage.

IMO you are conflating two separate issues.

Babies who experience severe neglect may well no longer cry out.

Babies living in loving homes, experiencing a few days of sleep training are not these children.

I didn’t sleep train my DC because I never got to the point where I felt I needed to, however I would do. To be honest it’s not something parents do lightly. Usually it is the least worst option at a difficult time. I think more about the long term impact of very poor sleep on a child’s development and on the wellbeing and safety of the whole family.

Only if by sleep training you mean put them.in bed and ignore them all night after that.
If you mean a normal method like returning in ever increasing times, settling in cot instead of arms then obviously not. I do wonder how much attention you were paying to those lectures to ask this tbh 🤔

Meeting a child’s needs does not mean responding immediately to every cry (obviously speed required depends on age). In fact, quite the opposite: if you respond immediately all the time they don’t learn how to manage. My most confident and relaxed child is the one I ignored the most (through circumstances!) Often what we are responding to is our own pain, because we hate to hear the baby cry, but actually it is not always kindest to avoid all crying.

I would also say that the effects of bad sleep deprivation on our ability to be rational, kind and patient are so awful that you will damage them more (as well as damaging other children in the family) through sleep-deprived parenting than through sleep training.

I am not advocating leaving them to scream alone for weeks, but proper sleep training should work within a week.
Actually if you start early you don’t need to do proper cry it out. Imagine that you had several children to put to bed and couldn’t respond immediately and give it that kind of pause if you can from when they are 8-12 weeks ish.

I and my siblings were sleep trained.

Im turning 40, I'm happy and have close, affectionate relationships with parents and siblings. I have a very secure attachment with my mum especially.

My own children were gently sleep trained at a few months old. Both sleep very well and are confident, secure children who are very loving towards me. They also readily communicate their needs, they cry easily if hurt/stressed or ill. They know I'll meet their needs but also that I'm not bound to tend to their every whimsical desire.

We just did routine from day 1 & didn't need to sleep train.

I think it's glossed over nowadays that it's important for a Mum to be rested. So many people on here complain about multiple night wake ups. It's not good for either baby or parent to get broken sleep every night. I don't comprehend why people don't focus on sleeping more. You will have many people telling you to accept broken nights as it's just normal. I honestly think this is a modern day thing. Years ago it was normal to sleep train

My parents did cry it out with me and gloat about how I had cried so hard and so long that I had lost my voice the next day.

I didn’t sleep train DS, we co-slept on and off (not when he was a tiny baby) and even when he was in his own room he knew my door was always open. He is 11 now and sleeps fine, he will still come and find me if he has a nightmare or is unwell. I obviously can’t say whether it would have affected his attachment as I never tried it. In the same way I can’t say whether sleep training affected me, I know I’m not a naturally affectionate person, I know I struggle to ask for help, and I have had blips with my mental health over the years but this could have happened anyway and might just be the way I’m genetically programmed.

Trying to work out solutions for baby sleep, at times, is a completely mind bend!

My eldest would not sleep. I tried sleep training of various forms and nothing worked. She is 3.5 now and sleeps through(ISH), I think despite my sleep training efforts she still loves me 😄

My youngest had a bit of a reality check when I started working nights again a few months ago. 2 nights of me being at work and dad letting him cry it out worked. He now puts himself to sleep and wakes up at 7am. Again I'm pretty sure he still loves me and his dad 😄

Good luck with the baby sleep puzzle OP x

God your parents sound disgusting @Feralgremlin. That's truly awful.

I heard Vernon Kay on the happy mum happy baby podcast say something similar. He said he and Tess Daly would check their girls had been fed and had a clean nappy and then shut the door on them at night 😔 really put me off them both.

I've sleep trained over 100 babies and young children. It can be done without screaming and upset. It is good for them to be independent. Everyone sleeps better longer term and is happier. I am still in contact with a good number of these young people and none are traumatised or disturbed, and none of them blame me or dislike me.

When studying child psychology? Did you come across the Romanian orphan study? Those children did not cry as they knew they would not get a response due to staff shortages which led to severe neglect.
I haven't done sleep training personally but I thought the point was that they do get a response but not to be picked up and cuddled or rocked back to sleep?

Many many many people who are now 30+ would’ve been sleep trained as babies, probably the majority. And they’re a mentally healthier bunch than the kids/teens/20 somethings.

Would you like to enlighten us all on that ‘science’? Maybe post a link?

Speak for yourself. I have more issues than you can throw a DSM 5 at.

Hi OP,

I have twins - a great example in how you can’t jump at every cry. So often especially as babies both cried, and I had to leave one to tend to the other first. As so many have said, huge difference in not jumping at every noise compared to neglect like the example in your OP.
I did sleep train my twins as I was at my wits end with two babies - I did something called Gradual Retreat, it fit with my comfort level in doing it and also worked very well for us.

The amount of “being left to cry” during my daughter’s sleep training was far less than the amount of “being left to cry” experienced by my friends twins or second born children just by dint of there being more than one of them, so unless attachment theory says that all children who have siblings have trauma, it seems unlikely.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the increase in behavioural issues noted by teachers is due to chronic and severe lack of sleep. This ‘child lead, waking 8 times a night until 11 is biologically normal’ approach may be behind this.

I do wonder. My DS is adopted, he was 4 when placed with us and I was told by his foster carers that he didn’t need much sleep - was up til 10.30/11.00 at night, up from 6.00am, couldn’t sleep alone. One of the first things we did was establish a night time routine, within the week he was sleeping from 7.00pm til 7.00am - he had been chronically over tired, they used screen time to give themselves some down time and he was very over stimulated. I do think children need as good a sleep routine as possible from a young age.

I agree with this. We didn't sleep train DD2, but she got left to cry for a short while sometimes. If I was giving toddler DD1 a bath and DD2 started crying, obviously she literally could not be left, whereas I knew DD2 was safe so she had to wait. Not ages obviously, but DD1 got a lot more attention and a lot more quickly!

I used CC with my first son when he was 10 months old (for various reasons) and it worked within a week.

He’s 10 now and still loves me and is a very happy child.

Nah. I firmly believe that what happens during the day with your baby is way more important than at night. If you have a safe strong attachment with your child during their waking hours, they will grow up with a secure attachment style even if they cried at night when they were exhausted and needed to sleep.

My DD has CMPA and terrible colic and reflux.

I think this bit is very crucial op. I had 2 babies with this and it is very specific set of circumstances. These babies have a need to be held to ease their absolute discomfort and pain. They therefore do not know how to self soothe, actually develop strong separation anxiety and in fact tend to be more dependent. With my first we didn't make this connection and it was utter hell. Sleep, naps was just torture. It put me off ever wanting to have another child. Then he only settled around 4. With my second , again we went through hell and at 9m we sleep trained. It took us 3 nights and she is so different to my older one who had the exact same issues as her. This is just my experience and from speaking to lots and lots of people who had babies like mine. I also found that when my dd went through bouts of teething and Illness her sleep habits did not drastically change.

In our experience, sleep training was 4-5 nights. And really it was only 3 where we really weren't responding to every cry - 4 and 5 were very quick settles.

I think the attachment / neglect / babies of addicts is months and months of ignoring cries repeatedly - day and night - so isn't comparable.

@Ariona interesting to hear from someone who also had these circumstances with their child(ren).

Do you think sleep training would work for a baby with these circumstances? I wouldn't do it until she's a bit older but I'm researching what's best for her - I know I can't completely get it right but I already feel guilty for her CMPA and just want to try and do what's best for her. I'm all for teaching children to be independent and learn to self soothe but like you said CMPA babies are different - it's just so draining. I feel guilty saying this as I love her to bits but I can't get anything done and I feel like all I hear is 'all babies cry' and 'of course babies are going to be needy'. Yes I get that all babies cry and are needy but with a CMPA baby it's different as you rightly pointed out.

Can I ask why your first only settled around four years old? Did you try sleep training him at all? What helped in the end with him?

Did your second one have the same kind of classic textbook CMPA symptoms or was she not as bad? Also, what milk did your LOs get prescribed? i think part of the problem is that the Pepti 1 (Aptamil) maybe isn't working for her. She does put on weight. But she's always in pain, has upset stomach, sounds chesty, refuses milk mid feed and cries for hours and hours most days. Her cry is very loud and high pitched - a painful cry. Surely if the Pepti was working then these dytnomswouldve eased? She's also on omeprazole due to bad reflux issues. Sorry for the long post but it's interesting to hear from someone who had a similar baby

You don't sleep train a baby with colic. You get their symptoms treated and the cause established (mine was due to dairy intolerance).