AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

I feel differently to most who say it's none of your business. It is the deceit that matters.

@Moreorlessmentallystable she said others have generational wealth & their dc will also be helped with uni etc. Referring to the jealously point you made.

As others have said, it's the dishonesty not the money itself that's the problem. You've all felt sorry for them and made compromises for their benefit and it turns out that you've been doing that based on a lie about their finances. I would really struggle to move past that.

Everything apart from the Rugby camp is totally reasonable.
i have no idea re the savings of my friends and wouldn’t expect to. Maybe you should immediately declare all you savings to the rest of your friendship group 😀

It’s sad for you that your friendship group has been split up.

i would be like you - I would want to remain friends re couple in question I would ask them directly about the rugby camp and I’d want to understand why they thought that subsidy was ok.

I agree, all decisions have been made on false information.

You all sound quite materialistic. Perhaps their priority when it came to spending money wasn't group holidays with the MCT class. I don't think that's odd.

I sometimes say I can't afford something rather than saying I just done want to go- it seems the more socially acceptable way.

@Direstraightsagain presumably you do not lie to your friends though?

It's all very strange. On the one hand, you chose to subsidise them and go on cheap holidays because you liked their company . On the other hand, there's an air of dishonesty about the whole thing.

I would distance myself from them too, it would feel like I've been lied to for too long.

That aside, we've only gone on group holidays with other couples twice. Never doing it again going forward (weekends away yes but not for big holidays). The differences in budget and preferences are just too much and put a damper on things every time.

You have NO IDEA what money people have, you just don’t. All the others could be sat on nice little eggs for all you know. They are not required to tell friends how much they have in savings! However it does take the piss if they’re borrowing twenty quid for rugby.

But more fool you if you’ve been having shitty little holidays when you could easily afford something nice. That’s just stupid. And silly not to go for meals just because one couple can’t. I wouldn’t go to Butlins when I could afford Centre Parcs just to be bloody polite.

Why don’t you discuss it with the others and extend an olive branch to the couple by sending a message saying ‘let’s not fall out about this money business, I think the others were just shocked as you have pleaded poverty for so many years, remember when everyone chipped in for the rugby classes? Look, we’re all planning a skiing trip and would love you to come. It’ll be 3k per family. Let us know.

I’m not British either… I think people mostly compare salaries when they get their first real jobs but then start to get quiet about it as incomes start to diverge after a couple of years.

In some cases salaries are public knowledge (if anyone cares to look) because they are publicly available.

The ironic thing is my DH’s coworkers all make the same range as it’s a government job. The last time one of them called us millionaires I said ‘really… you know how much he makes because you all make the same thing?’ Granted they don’t know my salary, but most of them own and run side businesses… we’re probably the lowest earning out of the bunch!

Saying, oh actually we'd prefer to not spend that much this year because we are trying to save, is completely different to pleading poverty, and not being able to pay for a £20 football tournament, or a coffee.

But the friends were dishonest by creating the impression they were unable to afford certain types of holidays / activities.

As a result of this impression the whole friendship group made decisions about how to spend their (probably limited) free time. If the couple had been honest - which doesn't mean disclosing their 10-15 year financial plans - the group would have at least had the option to consider alternative holidays etc.

The cheaper holidays were chosen to ensure this family were fully included but they didn't recognise or at least appreciate all the compromises the whole group was making for them.

It does sound like a really first world problem to be honest. If you enjoyed the holidays (despite them being less luxurious than you might have liked) , knew how much they earned and like them as people then it would be a bit harsh/mad to cut them out. Especially if your kids are also friends. What exactly have you/your kids missed out on? It sounds like they have been financially canny, you suspected they had been investing the 'missing' money somewhere and that they haven't been taking the piss expecting others to fund them. I get that it's annoying but I would keep them as friends and hope you can laugh about it later. Life is short and good friends are worth preserving. Would they support you in a crisis?

Also, how often have you and the rest of the gang low level subsidised them? You know, things like more likely to havr meals.at your house because they cant afford to.entertain/don't have space? Or saying, "no no, we got the wine " when out all together etc? I bet its loads, like my flatmate.

Exactly

I guess it depends whether you (all of the group) would have genuinely let them not pay up for the holidays. Can you honestly, hand on heart say that no one in the group would have kept badgering them, encouraging them to spend the extra? Because that's never been true in my experience when I say "sorry, I just don't want to spend that much", I always get pestered to treat myself, push the boat out, just do it this once, you're holding everyone else back etc etc

The rugby thing isn't acceptable, but I can see how they could have ended up backed into a corner over it. If they genuinely didn't have the spare cash available as liquid funds, I can see why they literally couldn't turn round and say "oh actually we can find the money" but also wanted to avoid this situation they're in now where they'll be ostracised for wanting to save more than you guys think is acceptable.

Interesting thread!
Because my brain naturally goes to things like...
Okay, so say you found out 18 years ago that they were doing it this way.
What would the outraged people on this thread done?
Confronted them and said 'I think you should take more money out of the savings for our kids futures so that we as a group can have a nicer holiday?' Because that's an INSANE thing to say to someone.
Okay, your group wouldn't have paid for the rugby tour. Fine.
But wouldn't you have just fallen out anyway?
'Well we want to spend more on holidays and as you won't, we'll book something seperately'
Do you see what I mean - like, what's the alternative here? What would this information have materially done other than lose you friends that it sounds like you've had a lovely friendship with over all these years? Isn't that worth more than a few shit holidays?
Like, if I say my holiday budget is £400 to my mate, and I couldn't spend more than that because otherwise I couldn't afford my regular hair appointments, and didn't specifically say that to my mate, and one day she walked into my hairdressers, realised how much a cut&colour was and then confronted me accusing me of lying to her about my finances and impacting our joint holiday I'd tell her she was INSANE.
Just because the money wasn't 'doing anything' (other than racking up some serious interest by the sounds of it) doesn't mean its money they 'have'.
But seriously - if you'd have had this information sooner, what exactly would you have done...

I agree with this and tbh I admire how and why they have done this.

That poor 18 year old though having this on his shoulders. I hope that the anger directed at his parents from people who he has known all his life doesn’t affect his mental health too badly. Imagine that your parents have made massive sacrifices throughout your life and you end up with a shit tonne of money but no friends or support.

Thinking further about it, as someone who raised a family in the rough end of town in a smallish house with a mortgage we could cope with…you were all ok with them being strapped for cash because they had a big mortgage. Rather than thinking ‘Move and downsize to something you can afford’
How would you have felt if one of them had confessed to a serious addiction, like gambling? Would you have supported them or dumped them. Or supported and patted yourselves on the back?
The first generation friendships may be doomed, but I hope the second generation get through it with their bonds intact.

Also a few people baffled that a group of similar aged, similar educated people, with professional jobs, living close to each other and meeting due to having children at the same time wouldn't stay friends seems... odd. Surely this is exactly how you do meet people and make friends?

It was an NCT group of 8 couples. 5 stuck together. This is normal surely?

Anyway poor couple (I should have used fake names. This sounds dreadful!) are lovely. Great fun. Kids very popular. Always organising (budget friendly!) stuff. This is why we all made so many accommodations.

They have decided what their disposable income is going to be.
What is happening to the rest is none of your business.
Why should they spend extra money from their kids uni/housing fund for you to have a better group time.
I put savings away and go without rather than dip in for a better holiday. My attitude is that money is not available.
If they told their son they couldn't pay the£20 for rugby but you paid then that's on you.
Would you feel the same if it was going into a pension and not hitting their pay cheque?

But salaries only tell you so much. Inheritance, making money on property, lifestyle and spending are far bigger indicators of wealth. I don’t believe this couple in question have saved 850k by one person saving their salary. A few hundred grand from grandparents popping their clogs has probably boosted it significantly.

The rugby club thing is the only actual CF thing where someone else paid for something they could actually afford. (Though it's unclear if they scrounger it or were trying to back out when someone else insisted on paying.)

The rest of it they told you what they could afford. "Affording" can mean different things. It can mean " I don't have the money" or "I've allocated the money for other things, not this". You didn't subsidise their holidays, you all spent less. The fact someone was injured was a liability of the holiday let not the stingy friends. Even cheap accommodation should be safe.

I can see both sides. We are high earners but keep it quiet and live fairly modestly (older cars etc) so I expect people assume we earn less and consequently we aren't under pressure to commit to high joint spends. Out priorities are saving for early retirement whilst still being able to help the kids through uni, learning to drive and hopefully house deposits as we are older parents.

It's uncomfortable though that they didn't give the option of saying look we'll opt out this time if you want to go for something more pricey. Giving the impression that they are impoverished rather than thrifty is a bit disingenuous.

£850k is a LOT though and they are fools for having told their kids the sum.

Did you all discuss what you were doing with your money? Saving for the kids, spend, spend, spend. If you did discuss did they lie? Maybe they assumed you would all be saving as much as possible and are equally surprised that the rest of you haven't been.

At least you've all saved a bit on the frugal holidays, mind you if I didn't enjoy them they would only have lasted a year or two at most, then it would have been 'making different plans this year' too basic.

What did the couple say when they were asked about it? Have they apologised or do they feel they have done nothing wrong?

Can I add, I’m on holiday right now with my family of four… we paid £150 for 3 nights here, self catered and it has been lovely… as we also are on a budget (although I wish I was saving that much, what an amazing opportunity they’ve given to their children)
I think you’re all very jealous… I’m sure you all had a lovely time at the time, but now you’re all Green…