What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

We have gender neutral toilets at work and no one cares.

It's a load of rubbish and we shouldn't be bullied in to someone pretending to be a woman

it's so wrong and should be thought of as mental illness

And yet, women in refuges have reported their distress when they have been housed with male people. I have read reports from
women in refuges who are fearful because there are male people there as well. In fact, we used to have a women who self excluded and lived in a tent until it snowed because she went to hostels and found male people in female single sex spaces. Now she had no children, but she was middle aged with health conditions and a history of sexual trauma but couldn’t find a refuge.

Women needing female carers also have been very distressed when they feel they might have little control over whether a male will come saying they are a female carer.

Now, can you please tell us all what evidence you have that males who are transitioning or transitioned have a lower risk of committing sexual offences than the rest of the UK male population. Please link us up so we can read what convinced you.

Because last I checked, male people with trans identities seemed to have as high, if not higher, risk of committing sexual crimes than the rest of the UK population. Happy to have this disproved. Please post the evidence.

If you don’t have evidence, why are you telling vulnerable women that they must accept a higher risk because you have decided their priorities for them.

Do you think that I have no experience at not knowing where the money is coming from to feed myself and to get shelter? Who are you to tell any woman that they shoudn’t care about this issue because you and some people you know don’t ? Isn’t the internet an amazing place. You have no fucking idea of the background of others posting.

If those toilets are built according to current legislation then there is no need to worry. Floor to ceiling self contained cubicles including sinks and hand dryers.

If they aren't then the building owner should be reported.

How do you know that no one cares?
What would you do if someone said they did care?

Call them transphobic and report them, I imagine.
I wonder why no one has ever spoken up.

Because no one cares. Why would they? They are single cubicles with a sink etc. I really can't see the issue.

My circle are of the opinion that you can wear what you like, love who you like, live with who you like but don't ask anyone to lie. We will accept you for who you are as long as you are truthful.

It’s interesting that the number of detransitioners is growing…

Young people realising that they might have been targets for ‘transing away the gay’, that they were not, after all, ‘born in the wrong body’ but are in fact same-sex attracted.

Heartbreaking - no, criminal - if you’ve been on puberty-blockers/cross-sex hormones, or body-modifying surgery…

You have no idea what I care about. You have made assumptions based on what seems to be your own prejudiced views.

And you have no idea what you seem to be advocating for.

So you cannot say at what point in their transition do males who identify as female attain a lower risk than every other male person in the UK. You just have a belief that it is so. You have just told us that all women who have need to have female single sex spaces agree with you. This is demonstrably false. But you seem to believe that you are the spokesperson on their behalf.

Great. Thank you for letting all the readers know that you have decreed that women don’t care. We know that they do, however, because they tell us with their own voices.

So again, you have no evidence that male people reduce their propensity to commit sex crimes compared to the rest of the UK population. Yet you confidently tell us that women don’t care.

But Yes, they do. Women tell us they self exclude from services because they are not wanting to share with male people.

I ask again, do you have any studies or statistics that show any male at any stage of transition is a lower risk to women or children than the rest of the UK male population? Yes or no?

In real life I don’t know anyone who has a problem with trans women or trans men. Everyone is generally supportive of trans colleagues and doesn’t give a toss about “safe spaces” or who uses which toilets.

The only place I ever see trans women discussed in a negative way is on mumsnet which I think is a great shame.

The toilets in my work have massive traffic of students and are rarely cleaned, they are revolting. Despite making a big thing of having a “menopause policy” there are only two dedicated female staff loos, which funnily enough are always full of female students who don’t want to use the gender neutral toilets.

Generally, live and let live.

Sorry?? Neither do I what?

Have evidence that male people who have transitioned have a lower risk of committing sex crimes?

You’re right I don’t. Because the current prison statistics shown there are proportionately more male trans people in the UK prison system who have committed sex crimes than the comparative proportion of the UK male population.

I am happy to dig those up. Women’s groups go through and desegregate these regularly. They go through case by case if they have to.

You don’t seem to care about facts though. You throw around generalisations and personal accusations very quickly without engaging with the discussion at hand.

Again, I have been homeless. I have been without money for food. I absolutely would fucking care if I had to share a refuge with a male person. You seem overly confident in your generalizations and you resort to personal attack if challenged rather than present a coherent argument. You are not the spokesperson for all people who are struggling.

Adults - do what you want, wear what you want, but fgs don't insist you can go in my changing room. I don't want you there.

Children - I feel very very sorry that you've been badly let down by the adults in your life. You clearly have mental health problems and instead of that being dealt with, adults are enabling you to 'change sex' and almost encouraging it. Why can't boyish girls just be tomboys and effeminate boys be a little 'gay'? (and I mean gay in the original sense of the word)

If you're a boy, and you want to dress like a girl - fine, go for your life, but you will never be a girl. You will never be a 'she'

I'm hoping beyond hope that I don't have to deal with this at my children's school. My daughter, who is going through puberty, deserves the right to go to the toilet or get changed without a boy or fancies himself as a girl watching her. End of.

But the waters are muddied aren't they let's be honest. Too far down this nonsense now.

I have no issue and in real life I’ve not met anyone who does. Mumsnet seem to hate them.
I read some threads and feel really sad quite honestly.

Thank goodness for you! I was starting to wonder if I’d stumbled into a parallel universe where everyone in the world disagreed with me!!

And you are not the spokeswoman for every woman who has been subjected to male DV and has sort help in a womans refuge.

I’m genuinely mystified as to what rights are being denied to trans people…

Getting an education? Renting a property? Getting a mortgage? Applying for a job? Opening a bank account? Getting a driving licence? Wearing what you like? Booking a holiday? etc etc

Most people I know when it's come up feel like people can wear what they want but cannot change sex.

A close gay friend feels strongly that he may have transitioned when younger as he has always felt more comfortable around women and likes a lot of music, pop culture stereotypically associated with women. He sees how his coming to terms with being gay may have been misdirected, especially if it was rife among peers. He is now a very happy homosexual man in a healthy long term relationship. He definitely sees the homophobic element.

Have you asked them all?

And I have not positioned myself as this.

Do you think that any female person should be excluded from a female single sex space because a male is there? Again, just a yes or no answer is fine.

I can only speak for myself. I don't respect or give a shit about men who pretend to be women.

I have no problem with them (why would anyone?). They're human beings with as much right to dignity and self-determination as anyone else. The way these people are spoken about on here is vile. I've never meant anyone in real life with the overarching obsession with this non-issue that this place has.

Friends my age 55-65 are happy to tolerate dressing up but very clear about the need for males to keep out of women's spaces. One is a loud TERF, one has to be careful as she has a niece/nephew.

DCs and their friends in their 20s mostly roll their eyes, glad to have missed the social contagion at school by a few years.

Teenagers, a mixed bunch from one dabbling in pronouns and blue hair dye to one girl who trained hard at a sport for over 10 years, was reaching national level, then was beaten to a medal position by a male in her female category. She left the sport that day in tears and has not trained or competed since.

As a pp said, it is biologically impossible to be born in the wrong body. You might not like what you get (I would prefer curly hair and longer legs for example) but it is the right body for you.