What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

So what we have is an entire generation of children being taught to have lower sexual boundaries. Because some heavily ideological people with little understanding of safeguarding principles have decided that male people should get what they demand regardless of the cost to women and children. Because they can’t recognise the harm to women and children.

Opinion piece on allowing male people into female spaces because they wore a skirt and what went wrong.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/10/29/trans-bathroom-policy-sexual-assault/8568005002/

We need to accept that this person is a woman because they said they are. No exceptions.

Didn’t the judge in the Miller case declare that Miller’s victim, got into the car because she believed that Miller was a woman. She would have not got into Miller’s car knowing that Miller was a male person.

This us from way back in the thread but again I agree with Stolen that we can't agree.

'For all of you, having a female biology is a necessary and sufficient condition of being a woman.

For trans people, and people who accept the validity of their experiences, a female biology is neither a necessary nor sufficientcondition of being a woman. Sex and gender are distinct.

The two positions can never be debated meaningfully between each other because we can’t agree on the logical starting premise.'

Absolutely. I do see why 'no debate' was ever proposed, because we might as well be arguing in different rooms.

To me, the main issue and the 'cis' issue is easily demonstrated like this. If we described a person of the male sex who transitions as a trans man (and logically from a linguistic point of view this makes more sense), and a person of the female sex who transitions as a trans woman, then obviously there is no need for anyone to identify themselves as cis. We have men and trans men, women and trans women. Women's spaces are for women.

That will never be accepted because transition isn't about logic, reason or objective reality. I accept that some things aren't about logic, reason or objective reality but it makes it a bit difficult to make any kind of legal or policy decision on it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiked-online.com/2024/01/29/why-is-a-full-grown-man-competing-against-teenage-girls-in-swimming/amp/

This one.

But there are many examples of men like this.

No matter what a person's perception of their gender or another person's gender is, this proposition accepts that sex and gender are different.

So, it's easy isn't it?

Women need to retain sex based rights for safety and dignity. Males with woman gender are not woman sex so should not be in those spaces.

If they don't feel either safe or don't want to go in Men's single sex spaces then they should advocate for something else/ third spaces.

Only gender identity ideology lumps mentally ill teenage girls who are struggling with puberty and hate their body, with sexually motivated men and then says they both need the same 'treatment'

And what group benefits from that forced pairing? People need to wake the hell up.

@zingally
..and do so in order not to have to live our lives like angry little teapots, always ready to bubble over - such as yourself...

are they teapots that identify as kettles?

I see. Suggesting politely that you and your friends may lack empathy is now ‘aggressive and confrontational’. And your reply about ‘angry little teapots’ was justified and not aggressive or confrontational?

TRAs keep arguing that 'woman' refers to gender, not sex, and not one of them can explain why spaces should be segregated by gender, or indeed what gender actually means to them.

If someone's gender is woman:

It's not because they have a vagina and XX chromosomes, because TWAW.
It's not because they like lipstick and high heels and skirts, because that's sexist and fucking offensive.
It's not because they have a passive, submissive ladybrain, because that's even more sexist and fucking offensive, despite the claims of a TRA over in FWR that one time.

So what does 'woman' gender mean and what connects it to the female sex such that people claiming this gender should be using spaces and words formerly meant for that sex?

Why should people with woman gender get their own spaces, and not people whose gender is genderfuck or catgender or maverique?

'Because they want to use those spaces' is not a valid answer.

This is such a revoltingly, nauseating, passive aggressive response.

you’re very fortunate that you are able to take a “live and let live approach”, how lucky to be absolutely confident that you will never need a DV refuge, NHS ward admission or a rape examination.

and how arrogant to believe that you can give away my rights and those of my daughters to not be strip searched by, incarcerated with or intimately cared for by a man.

and then the audacity of ending your blindly arrogant position with “I’m sorry someone hurt you” as some sort of PA attack on women who actually care about other women and girls, when that is exactly why the many eloquent voices on this thread fight: because women and girls have been hurt, in the worst possible ways imaginable by men who pretend they are woman is disgusting and wholly lacking in any humanity.

@zingally doesn’t know the difference between a tea pot and a kettle. Her hilarious dig fell a little flat ☹️

When I said “31 women”, I added “ask stupid questions, get stupid answers”. If people genuinely thought I provided a figure of 31 as the acceptable number of cis women who can be harmed by an offender - well, I was being sarcastic. I thought that was abundantly clear in my post but I guess not.

I don’t think there’s much point in continuing this discussion. I’ve made my position clear. If any trans person is actually reading this then please know that you are a woman, you deserve to be safe and you deserve to live with dignity.

Good luck with your lives everyone. I hope for your sakes and the sakes of your children that none of them are trans.

I won’t be checking this thread for further responses. Tara!

If any trans person is actually reading this then please know that you are a woman, you deserve to be safe and you deserve to live with dignity.

By TRA standards, a very transphobic thing to say to any transmen reading this, no?
But then we know which type of 'trans people' actually matter to them.

I don’t think the fact you now declare you were sarcastic helps in how people will view your post in any way. That you were sarcastic and flippant about the safety of women and children actually shows your disregard for them just as clearly.

Plus, there are many trans people who are in fact female people and those also deserve safe spaces. Why is it that you keep focusing on male people?

Do you really understand?

Are you genuinely happy that your 'live and let live' approach means women being incarcerated with rapists?

Victims of rape/domestic violence being denied women only spaces for refuge and counselling?

Sick and disabled women being denied their rights to women only carers for intimate care?

Orthodox religious women being driven out of public spaces and opportunities for leisure?

Lesbians being told they must accept men into their dating events and apps?

Young women being told they must share changing spaces with men and it's 'bigoted' to leave because they're feeling unsafe?

I mean, I would prefer to believe that you just haven't thought this through (though your righteousness in the face of ignorance is noted).

Or perhaps you are simply a MRA who thinks that none of this is important, so long as men get what they want?

I do find it interesting how you insist on mis gendering women, In order for a woman to be cis they would have yo identify as such.
Otherwise we are back to the trans term literal violence, but again it is interesting how the TRAs invent, follow and ignore rules as they please.

I consider it willful ignorance for those declaring that a subset of male people should be included in female single sex spaces despite the evidence in the prison statistics where more than 50% of male prisoners with transgender identities are sex offenders. Certainly not all male people are like that, and not all
Male people with transgender identities are sex offenders.

However, for safeguarding principles to assess risk, these male people are still male. And from those prison statistics, there is no way to avoid the probably that the risk is the same, if not higher, for that sub group of male people. It cannot be considered strong safeguarding to create a special group to be exempt. That is totally contradictory to strong safeguarding.

Yet here we are.

Being flippant or sarcastic is no fucking excuse to make jokes about harming women or children. This is bizarre behaviour.

Thank god for that.

And they never did answer my question about why trans women were so insistent on being included in women’s spaces instead of fighting to create their own.

There are many questions @StolenCookie didn't answer. Probably never will.

If any trans person is actually reading this then please know that you are a woman

unless you are a man

tut tut stolen

TLDR

Wow, so the plight of vulnerable women is totally uninteresting to you.

Looks like you are just a Male Rights Activist

If that's the only thing you could argue with, honestly, not that concerned! 😅