What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

This is quite naïve and could leave your daughter open to grooming.
It’s well know that predators and abusers know how to treat a potential victim to sucker them in.

Before anyone jumps on this and accuses me of suggesting all TW are groomers, I’m not, I’m suggesting that a more nuanced approach should be taken when teaching our children, particularly where men are concerned (no matter how they present themselves).

Does he not remember glam rock in the 70s?

I mix in lots of circles. I actually have to remind myself which circle I’m in. At work, it’s very woke. The older people I know are largely sceptical. My friends are in the main supportive as long as men aren’t in women’s safe spaces

I do worry about the impact on women. Equally I have a friend who became a woman - he really was struggling and he is in a better place now. I want their to he support for the genuine people who are.

I don't think humans can change sex and I think the idea that one changes their sex via "transition" because they feel out of step with gender stereotypes is regressive and harmful. I don't think that people should be allowed to legally change their sex on legal documents or erase their previous identity as its a massive safeguarding issue. I have questioned the motivation of men who wish to present as women and use female single sex spaces. Most people I know agree with me, and that is across all age groups and levels of education.

One notable exception is a friend and her husband who is actually a Dr at an NHS gender clinic.

Ultimately people can dress and present how they like, I wish nobody any harm and would use preferred pronouns to be polite but I don't see or accept males as actual women and I do think that males should use male single sex spaces and stay out of women's spaces, sports and representation and as I said there should not be any way to legally change sex or hide your previous identity.

No human in the history of humanity has ever been in the ‘wrong body’.

This is a dangerous and harmful narrative. No brains are in the wrong body. We are only ever the brain we are born with in the body we are born with. Please stop spreading dangerous and harmful misinformation.

A person who believes they are the opposite sex to which they were born, is only ever what they conceive and therefore believe what being the opposite sex is … to them ! To their personal interpretation of what that sex would feel like. They have no idea what that is nor have they the framework to base that feeling on.

Too often, as we have been directly told by males who believe they are female, they are trying to be the opposite of what they also believe is the description of their own sex. We have numerous male posters tell us they are women, actually some use the term female, because they simply don’t fit in as boys or men. That is hugely offensive. ‘Woman’ is not a dumping ground for disillusioned male people. Nor for male people who are sexual fetishists. And we know they exist because they come and tell us in the feminist board.

No.

No one is in the ‘wrong body’ and if someone has convinced you this is possible, if I were you, I would question how the fuck is that is materially realistically possible.

What do you see that support looking like though?

Does society need to accept this male as female?

@SpectacledBear I agree with you. Much of the days to day problems are that we (women) have to make a judgement call in the moment for our own safety, and don't have time to understand if someone is a good person.

Irrefutably, any uninvited man, in close proximity to women and girls in a state of undress, is not a good person. And let's not assume they are predators, but at the very least they are unable to respect the boundaries of others.

I would say 95% of my social network are fully supportive of trans rights and I haven't heard anyone talk about safe spaces for women. People who are trans are fully seen as the pronoun they choose, end of. There is no question, if someone is born a male but identifies as female, they are female no matter what biology says or doesn't say.

5% - more religious circle - haven't said anything to me but when we were it an event and two trans people were there, they kept staring and asked if I'd seen them. These 5% have lived more in smaller communities and are all people who are very deeply into their faith and faith community, so not exposed much, nor in fairness do they care to be/learn.

helle well that’s the big question. In this individual’s case, he (she) has full surgery and in that case. I’m ok with the being in a women’s space. Obviously not doing women’s sport. It genuinely took him (her) a long time to come to terms with it all. Contrast that with the sex offenders in Scotland declaring their trans status and entering women’s prisons. Obviously madness. There is then grey in between and that’s an endless debate

My friends are accepting of the trans person we all know. What we don’t like is sharing women's spaces like changing rooms and toilets, or transwomen in women’s sports.

Most of our teen DC find it all a bit tiresome - they all observe it’s mainly for attention and are heartily sick of it being discussed in school assemblies etc.

Unless you are in a situation where it becomes important. Such as a refuge. Or you are a woman who needs for female single sex spaces to remain single sex. For instance, your female spaces at work or if you need a female carer to do intimate care for you. Some of the most vulnerable people in the UK require material reality to be observed.

Dismissing it as ‘the person having a piss in the next cubicle has a dick or not’ is harmful for those women and girls.

All generations quite accepting that everyone is unique and that we all have the right to express ourselves.

Some worries that children need support and timento make non reversable decisions.

As the older generation, sometimes my partner and I are playing catch up. My English lessons ( grammar) means that when my son says about a friend ‘they’ are joining us….we are looking for more than one person and wondering where the others are…

My immediate friendship group are all TERFs, my wider friendship group, TERFs. My tennis team, TERFs. My work colleagues TERFs (apart from one). My family, TERFS.

My DS's friends. Almost all Trans. Mostly autistic. Absolutely a social contagion.

Humans can't change sex. It's all fucking nonsense. Dangerous nonsense.

Depends on the circle.

I teach Performing Arts, know a lot of professionals in the Arts industry and do a lot of amdram. So, in those circles, nearly everyone thinks TWAW. It's a very 'woke', liberal, airy fairy and quite yiung world.

At work (independent school) there's a surface, professional acceptance of it but, at heart, most people are relatively GC and think it's all nonsense. We don't have any trans or non binary students but we only go up to age 13.

At church (perhaps surprisingly) it's very TWAW. It's a liberal church and I think the leadership is so desperate to embrace and accept everyone that they won't even question it. They see transphobia as akin to homophobia.

My family are very critical and probably too judgmental. They don't see the genuine struggles and mental health issues, they just roll their eyes.

There's also a bit of an age divide. Generally seems like under 35s go more for TWAW and over 35s are more GC.

Most of my close friends and family think it’s ridiculous. You cannot change sex. Sympathy for genuinely dysphoric people but keep men out of women’s‘ spaces.

I have another group of friends who are full on TWAW. They know my thoughts on the matter.

I think whether or not you can feed or keep your children warm is a greater priority in my network. Which is what the OP asked.

My friends/family all believe it would be a case of live and let live if the minority weren't aggressively invading womens spaces and services.

ok. That is you and your desire to be kind to your friend.

A male without a penis and testicles is still a male without a penis and testicles. Why should any female who has need of any female service or single sex space deprioritise her needs for your friend. I realise you probably know this already. However, a male who fully respects female people and their needs will never ask to be accepted into any female single sex space. Because they know full well that they are disrespectful of the needs of those women and girls.

When Female trans people come
to MN, they generally let women know that they fully understand that they have taken steps to masculinise their bodies and will find other solutions so they don’t distress female people. Some male people seem to do this too. They also respect the needs of female people.

Does your friend find solutions that don’t cause distress to female people, Beethoven? We are often told that male trans people continue to either use male toilets or unisex toilets and never use female toilets. Is this what your friend does? or because they have had their penis removed, do they think they should be able to use the female single sex spaces? As a male without a penis.

And we already know that some women are impacted by this and yet cannot do a thing about it because they, as you say, are trying to keep their children warm.

It doesn’t mean they are not impacted. Far from it. As I said, some of the most vulnerable women and children are deeply impacted by it.

They are impacted by male violence. Not Trans violence. You think vulnerable women who have fled DV care about Trans? They don't.

Most people have the mental capacity to care about more than one thing. Sorry that you don't.

Oh I do. Which is why I can't understand why some women on here only seem to care or cast votes on one single issue.

My friends, family and me don't usually discuss it, we're working class southerners very live and let live.

My mum always felt that trans women who'd been through the full sex change operation were definitely women & was supportive of them.
One colleague has a trans child early 20s who is quite vulnerable and I'm aware of her struggles; another friend has a trans daughter who is happy and transitioning slowly through the NHS.
I've had several trans m to f colleagues over the past few years. One of them was so convincing as a female I'd thought she was a woman at birth. Very beautiful to look at.

I’m a lecturer and my work is as woke as it’s possible to be - I go all day without a wee because the toilets are all “gender neutral” and absolutely reek of male urine.

Most of my friends/close colleagues are happy to support other people’s choices but do not believe a person can change sex. Others are too frightened to say anything. Personally I loathe the removal of women from language - person with a cervix in my last smear letter.

It’s positive that ‘No Debate’ is over and equality law is being publicly upheld, time and again.

The run of wins (with compensation) in UK courts/tribunals by (mostly) women whose livelihoods/reputations have been damaged by holding and voicing the protected belief that sex, not gender, matters:

Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey, Denise Fahmy, Rachel Meade, Jo Phoenix, Shahrar Ali etc. And more cases on the horizon.

As as a generous Crowdfunder donor - someone called JK 😉 - said this evening, the UK Supreme Court case “will be a truly historic case”…