What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Because statistics were including the crimes of these male people as female people!

Therefore obliterating any other way to gather the evidence except from looking at the sex crime pattern of the male prisoners claiming to be female.

Do you begin to understand where your ideological belief has led ? No one can provide statistics because those crimes are listed as female and hidden for ever.

How smug is it for someone to demand statistical evidence while understanding that the crimes are officially recorded as being done by female people. If they are even reported at all. Because reporting for any sex crime is at a very low rate in any case.

LOL? Fucking “lol”. That’s your response to women being sexually assaulted?!

Were you not able to read the links? Or too busy getting your kicks laughing about rapes and sexual assault stats?

all that data comes from the U.K. Offender Management statistics quarterly: January to March 2021, the archived page is here:
https://archive.is/5bIVF

why don’t you take a look at the 2023 data and see if the position is any different? I’ll bet you your “lols” that it won’t be.

Remember this poster told us 31 women and girls were acceptable collateral to be harmed in their eyes to allow a male to access female single sex spaces.

They wondered why people questioned their claim to be a feminist.

Exactly @Helleofabore as I posted earlier Scarlett Blake convicted yesterday of murder is being described everywhere as a woman rather than a TW. Scarlett is male but ‘her’ crime will now be listed as one carried out by a woman. Data matters, it has to be accurate and yet here we are when crimes are recorded by gender rather than sex

Your “lols” are why transphobia exists.

Not women wanting single sex spaces, fairness and dignity.

but idiots like you - who probably consider yourself a “great ally” - laughing at genuine documented risks. Any decent person, trans or otherwise, should be horrified by that data and thinking critically about resolution. But nope not you: women being sexually assaulted, lol how funny!

er @Helleofabore just to point out I said no such thing that would be @StolenCookie the way your post reads is rather unfortunate

I think we've all learned by now that the poster is a colossal MRA.

She doesn't give one shit about women. Clearly.

There is provision under the act that organisations can claim exceptions. Some groups tried this. They even put up a sign stating the act on the door.

Would you like to know what happened? A male transgender person videoed themselves entering in the space and made a huge deal when security asked them what they had been doing going in there.

In other words, the male person ignored the sign.

Using the exception under the law, a male person applied to a female only job role and got the job. That male person was exposed as being male and still Edinburgh Rape Crisis has kept that male person in place.

So the law is being clarified by court cases. It started with Ann Sinnot who lost her case and started the focus on strengthing the law. We will get that strengthened. And then there will be provision for organisations to state their toilets are for female people only.

You seem rather pleased that there is a lack of clarity regarding toilets. Your reactions here on this thread have been enlightening around this.

There is no law that allows trans women to be removed from a female toilet. Schools have been provided with different guidance, perhaps because children considered to be ‘questioning’ rather than trans. That’s the language that seems to be used by the Department of Education.

From the Met Police website:

What facilities can a non-binary person use?

If someone (whether binary or non-binary) presents as, say, female then they use the female toilet and vice versa. There is no law or policy prohibiting anyone from using whichever toilet matches their gender identity, and a trans individual cannot be ordered to use a toilet that they feel uncomfortable using. *

Oh no! Apologies Pegasus. I meant that poster that you were quoting !!!

let me quote the post and correct that loose language. FFS!! Many apologies.

Remember this poster (referring to Stolencookie), told us 31 women and girls were acceptable collateral to be harmed in their eyes to allow a male to access female single sex spaces.

They wondered why people questioned their claim to be a feminist.

Note: Pegasus did not claim 31 additional women and girls being harmed was acceptable collateral for allowing male people to access female single sex spaces!

@StolenCookie even where the specific breakdown of stats aren't available, you don't have be a genius to understand that if 91% of victims are women and their perpetrators are male 99% of the time, then any increase of access to women by any subgroup of the male category such as trans women or men that identify as women or those that don't identify but utilise Self ID will only maximise the risk and execution of sexual crime.

Saying anything else is deliberately misleading and minimising the risk of sexual crime against women and girls, and in your case worse, to advocate that the risk is already acceptable and can be further increased 'because there are no credible stats'

Utter nonsense.

I'm not sure met police website is the most credible source info either! FFS. Ha ha!

Here is a 2014 link demonstrating a clear link showing how giving women their own toilets protects them from sexual assault: https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/11/484042 .

There was no codified law because society never needed this to be a codified law previously. Because any male person that was in the female toilets could be viewed as having malicious intent. Any male person working in the toilet would have a sign up allowing female people to make the choice to enter or not.

You really have displayed no care at all for women and girls who feel traumatised by male people being in the toilets with them. I think we can clearly see that you have no empathy for them at all. No empathy either for those female people who have religious needs to be considered. And before you prioritise male people above those female people, ask yourself whether you are sure that all those female people had free choice in their religious choice? Are you really putting their needs down the list behind male people?

I admire your perseverance Helleofabore, I gave up yesterday and went off to watch the rugby. I think one of the most disturbing things on this thread is Stolencookies complete lack of understanding of how safeguafding works which given the environment she works in is shocking.

I admire your perseverance Helleofabore, I gave up yesterday and went off to watch the rugby.

Sounds appealing and I loathe rugby.

Hopefully the force that registered the crime followed the new government request and recorded the crime as a male person. However, I don’t think there are repercussions for them recording this as a female crime.

Remarkable isn’t it? That a poster would take delight in the fact that all we have is the prisoner statistics that may or may not record the sex accurately. All we really have is a team of women who have gone through and researched and desegregated where the could.

And we have a poster ‘lolling’ that this is the case.

While outright denying what makes strong safeguarding decisions. In fact, showing they have no understanding of safeguarding at all.

Is it just me or does cookies insistence that there are no laws to protect women from male violence remind anyone of another poster on here who says similar?

Cookie is an out and out men's right's activist.

Cookie is delighted to come on a site that is predominately used by women to tell women we have no rights and to tell us that cookie doesn't care if women are harmed by predatory males so long as the males get what they want.

Cookies views are vile.

If what cookie says about working with teenagers is true , it's a real worry. Cookie thinks teenagers should be taught gender as fact and should be taught that rights of males should come before the safety of women. Cookie has given a warning that trans-identifying kids might estrange themselves from parents who teach sex as fact.

I’ve read @StolenCookie’s posts with interest as the leftie in me genuinely wants to have my mind shifted on this. But NOTHING she has said makes any sense to me. A quick google and I can see that trans women offend at the same rate (or greater) than men, so I have no idea how anyone could argue that allowing them unfettered access into women’s spaces is safe? And that 31 women’s trauma is collateral damage? I am baffled by the idea that in her mind something which is ultimately male entitlement trumps woman’s need for privacy and safety. It’s more solidified my view and yep, working in the position she does her understanding of safeguarding is terrifying!

I find your use of the word segregation offensive. Like white people telling black people it is discriminatory or segregation to have therapeutic spaces for people of colour only.

Please explain why a trans person wouldn’t want in the first instance to establish their own safe spaces. Is it just the principal of needing to be seen as women? And where does that need come from? It feels more philosophical.

Most women do not “feel” that we are women - we just are. If you grow up thinking you are in the wrong body/mind then that is a fundamentally different experience to most women and needs to be addressed. Society needs to do more deep thinking.

@StolenCookiewith respect I don’t think you are the person best placed to try to answer these questions. It really isn’t ok to be told that a man who lived the best part of their life as such and is now transitioned or transitioning should be allowed into female only space just because they feel they should be. I am not too concerned about public lavs - most of which are now unisex but I am very concerned about therapeutic spaces and spaces set up for women who, for example have experience of SA or DV or even more minor seeming sex discrimination at the hands of men. Those women (including me) will not open up with a transitioned or transitioning person in the space. How do I know? My own experience.

Oh and you told me that I and other women should just walk away from our therapeutic space when a trans woman started talking about her surgery. Wouldn’t it be better if she was in a group with others going through similar procedures?

Live and let live. Simple.

I was reminded of the type of person who would declare that 31 additional women and children harmed would be acceptable collateral to allow male people access to female single sex spaces. And who would prioritise male people over female people in this way while having no concept of what safeguarding principles are based on.

I think someone who has very low sexual boundaries is generally the answer from all the times we see this. If that is the case, that is very concerning.

I really recommend reading the thread 🙄