What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Many people in the real world consider Mumsnet to be a transphobic online space
Yet here you are... The opportunity for a good patronising finger wag at women is always irresistible.

None of you have convinced me that trans women are not women.

Because we have fundamentally different ideologies. All your screaming and frothing at the mouth about biology and sex mean nothing to me.

No argument I could ever make would persuade you either.

We’re all shouting into a pointless void really. You have the power of numbers on Mumsnet but I think most of the real world are catching up to the right side of the debate.

I don't think that all trans women are a danger to women, I would love to see them live their lives as they please.

But trans women are transwomen, it is not transphobic.

If talking about their "dicks" is transphobic, them the many transwomen and any organisation that say that lesbians should accept "female dick" then not only are they homophobic but transphobic as well.

Many people do consider Mumsnet to be a transphobic space but then they are the same people that tried #nodebate and have shutdown any research into trans affirming care for a long time.

No one is screaming and frothing at the mouth 🤣. Give over.
That's actually the second time you've mentioned you're being screamed at.
Interesting.
@StolenCookie

The way women here reference “dicks” when talking about trans women is disparaging and transphobic.

I have no opinion on how trans people themselves refer to their body parts.

Screaming in all caps about how trans women are not women is transphobic

I asked you why you think men with a gender identity should have access to single sex spaces because, as you said, sex and gender are distinct.

You cannot answer this without contradicting yourself or repeating nonsense mantras, so you ignore it.

Characterising trans people as dangers to women is transphobic

Again, we are stating that MALE people are the threat when it comes to female only spaces, so the most basic way of safeguarding FEMALES is to keep ALL males out.

But carry on twisting words. Everyone can see clearly what you are doing here.

Yet you clearly have an opinion about how they should be able to use those body parts.

It was stonewall that called lesbians transphobic "genital nazis" for not want to sleep with female dick, these are the people that you are siding with.

Biological peer reviewed facts are not an 'ideology'. Your ideology is a 'belief' that men, on their say so, can immediately become women and should be instantly granted access to all women's spaces, services and sports without question. It is an ideolgy built on sand which fails at first contact with the most basic lines of enquiry from women who arent so keen to give away their hard fought rights as you are. I guess it is easy to hide behind the incrrasingly hollow mantra of TWAW and just label everyone who disagrees with you as transphobes.

I don’t care how you characterise my contributions to this thread.

Trans women are women to me, so don’t fall under the category of ‘dangerous male’.

The individuals who commit crime, or co-opt a trans identity for nefarious reasons, have no bearing on the trans group as a whole.

Biological facts themselves are not an ideology, but prioritising them above all else is an ideology.

A fading one at that.

I did not know this. That’s beyond the pale!

The way women here reference “dicks” when talking about trans women is disparaging and transphobic

But it's ok when they talk about their own dicks then? Plenty do.
The majority keep theirs.

None of you have convinced me that trans women are not women

In what way do you think they are women?

Define gender identity without using 'feelings' or sexist sex role stereotypes.

Define woman without using the absurd statement 'anyone who identifies as one'

So, so close to the lightbulb bursting into life.

The individuals who commit crime, or co-opt a trans identity for nefarious reasons, have no bearing on the trans group as a whole.

How is a woman supposed to tell the difference between an authentic transwoman and a bloke 'co-opting' a trans identity for nefarious purposes?

So according to you
Transwomen are women not dangerous men, and the Transwomen who have attacked and raped women aren't really transwomen, they are actually dangerous men pretending to be transwomen.

So how, when a transwoman follows me into the changing room do I know if they are a real, genuine 100% safe transwoman or a dangerous man pretending to be a transwoman?

@Terfosaurus

Snap

The individuals who commit crime, or co-opt a trans identity for nefarious reasons, have no bearing on the trans group as a whole.

A trans woman is a transwoman unless she is the wrong type of transwoman. That is a very transphobic view.

Or don't you believe your own rhetoric?

Err, I didn’t say this.

I said the actions of a few don’t have relevance to the whole.

I mean.. Rose West is a woman. Do her actions have any bearing on all of you as women?

I mean.. Rose West is a woman. Do her actions have any bearing on all of you as women?

So in your mind there is still a definition of what a woman is that is separate to a transwoman?

Men are overwhelmingly responsible for sexual assault and rape. How is a women in a public bathroom or changing room supposed to tell the difference between an 'authentic' transwomen and a male predator masquerading as one?

On that then, all men should be allowed anywhere as it is only the actions of a few and therefore NAMALT.

That is what you said.

And by the same logic not all men are dangerous. Should we allow them into female only spaces too? We cant tar them all with the same brush after all.

but I think most of the real world are catching up to the right side of the debate

The world is absolutely catching up to the reality of what is being pushed by the genderists.
No more 'no debate'.

Everytime a male claiming to be a woman is plastered all over the newspapers for sex offences where the headline says 'WOMAN flashed her penis at children'

Every time a male takes a women's place, medal and prize money in sporting competitions

Etc etc,

The more people have their eyes opened and think WTAF!

You continue to show that you are seriously misinformed and you do seem really rather out of touch.

Proven science is not ‘ideology’. The facts remain the same regardless of how they are described. The fact that you keep trying to portray scientific fact as ideological is delusional. The science is abiding and it is clear that this is purely a philosophical belief. There is not one shred of science to back it up.

Not only that but as people get to know more and more about what is ideological, a belief in gender identity, the less support there is for the extreme demands such as you support. This is also trackable and it is being shown every year in different polls. That seems an inconvenient fact that I am sure you will dismiss. Because you come across as someone who lacks the ability to think any concept through thoroughly taking in facts from many different sources.

You also have a view on what is transphobic that is completely out of touch with the majority of the world also. I think you seem to follow the extreme trans activism that doesn’t even seem to be in line with many of the trans people that we hear about from their friends here on MN. There is no doubt that trans people need to have safety, and consideration for their unique needs. It should never be at the expense of the needs of female people.

This is not transphobic to say. That is your choice to believe the extreme philosophical beliefs , however anyone can see you then simply cannot answer any questions with any thought or any information.

You are simply on broadcast repeating your mantra as if it means anything and as if it wards off impure thoughts. I think many readers can see it.

We have tried this logic and I don’t believe this poster can think the concept through. At all. There seems no way that they are able connect the dots.