What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Transwomen in toilets? This is absolutely a statistical non issue compared to all of the violence and injustice we face.

It is not a game of top trumps, women have said No. Women feel it is an injustice, women face violence. Women are not support humans.

Direct your energy to the real problems and challenges facing women.

Firstly this is a real problem and challenge facing women. Secondly women can deal with directing energy to lots of problems at the same time. Must be something to do with that little lady brain.

You are being manipulated in ways the feed on the unhappiness and dissatisfaction with your life.

Again silly lady brain being manipulated, no possibility of free thought that has been fine tuned by years of girlhood and womanhood.

I tend to agree the earth goes around the sun but I do think it was hateful of galileo to publish such ideas and upset the church so much.

Well said

I can think of a few posters who have to tell us how much they don’t care whilst they benefit from changes made by women

Where policy or law is changed the statistics are that 100% of women loose some element of their current protected rights.

The % of men who claim to be women is irrelevant. As small as it may seem today, the influence has been phenomenal.

And I'll repeat again, the statistic of a 4000% increase of under 18 girls being referred for gender treatment. Puberty Blockers. Infertility. Breast removal.

Wake up.

Nonsense. I'm perfectly happy and satisfied with my life and I don't read the Daily Mail. I merely want to be able to go into the women's toilet and not find men in there, for all the reasons other posters have explained.
I'm completely aware of the other risks and dangers women face from men who dont identify as women, but allowing men that do to use womens facilities isn't going to reduce those risks or make women safer; so why should I support it when it makes me and other women uncomfortable?

Absolutely don’t understand this stereotype. As much as I agree there are bigger fish to fry, I don’t read the Daily Mail, have been a die hard Labour supporter all my life and considered left wing. The job I do involves a mostly left wing leaning political ground in my colleagues and they ALL share a concern around TRA.

The trouble is I quickly realised that if I couldn’t support trans women in women’s prisons, in their support services, in sport then I did not believe TWAW and therefore was not a ‘live and let live’ person.

If you can hand on heart say you are happy with trans women in these places then fair enough, but the vast majority on here shouting ‘live and let live’ do not and that in itself is considered transphobic by TRA. Which is the irony many of us see.

I liked to know what being transphobic means?

Is voicing the fact that trans women are biological men for the purpose of ensuring fair play for women is sport transphobic?

Is voicing the fact that trans women are biological men for the purpose of ensuring rape centres have biological female groups for women who would only feel comfortable talking about their trauma with biological women transphobic?

Is voicing the fact that some trans women are in fact autogynephiles who, by definition, are men who get sexual aroused by the thought of themselves as females transphobic?

Yes, to all those, according to TRAs and the #bekind brigade.

Remember #nodebate? You weren't allowed to say any of those things until Elon Musk bought Twitter and changed the rules. Or you were on here - Justine faced a lot of abuse for allowing women a space to discuss the issues on here. And plenty of times TRAs have got threads shut down, tried to get threads shut down, and even sued Mumsnet.

I really can't shout this loud enough. Stop trying to patronise GC women, we are capable of making our own minds up and coming to our own conclusions

Or are you one of the "All GC women are Far Right" brigade?
Why have rightwingers made even parkrun a battleground for trans people? | Sport | The Guardian

There is no such thing as "assigned female at birth" (afab). You either are female at birth, or you're male. You either have the potential to produce large gametes, or small ones. The doctor doesn't "assign" you to one or the other.

I am not dissatisfied with my life, nor unhappy. I don’t read the DM, am not right wing and really don’t like being told where to direct my energies, ta.

I don’t want anyone other than biological women in women’s only spaces. Or sport. End of.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/18/trans-womens-milk-as-good-as-breast-milk-says-nhs-trust/

This has appalled me. I’ll be honest and admit it is stories like this which really make me lean towards intolerance. I’m live and let live up until a point. Poor poor children having males sticking their nipples in their mouth. How is this not child assault? I could cry

Christ alive, even the lactation drug manufacturer is saying it could affect the baby’s heart but this NHS trust is so keen to say TWAW that it’s ignoring this.

Here is a question for Tiny and for all those who have either declared that it is a non-issue, or have stated that we should direct our attention elsewhere.

Can you give us a number, not n+1 meaning when enough are harmed that society should act, for how many women and girls harmed are acceptable collateral in the prioritising male peoples demands over female people’s needs?

I’ll be fair and start from now because there is already many examples I can quote from the UK of women and girls being harmed. There are ALREADY girls and women who have been harmed either physically or through any number of other harms. This includes women self excluding from using toilets and change rooms they are not confident are single sex spaces.

So, please quantify your thoughts here. We are used to seeing the dismissive n+1 type answer.

Will 1 more woman or girl being attacked, intimidated, being exposed to naked males, feeling traumatised, being abused or needing to exclude due to religious or past trauma mean you will consider those female people’s needs? 2? 5? 10? 100?

Do the women need to publicise their needs? Give traumatic accounts for you to consider their needs?

How do you measure the number of women and girls restricting their movements in public (including employment) because for religious reasons they cannot use the toilet or changing room? Do their needs even feature in your assessment when you prioritise male people’s demands?

Can you further clarify your thoughts? Because to me reading it seems you have not considered the reality of female people’s needs at all.

And you have forgotten, it only takes 1 male person to cause harm to many female people over the course of one day using a female single sex space. So, your ‘there are so few’ is just a false claim .

I look forward to your answers. Oh. By the way a male academic Sophie Grace Chappell told us all that a slight spike in murders of women would be acceptable, so you have company if you think that an increase is ok.

“Suppose people were saying ‘Well you know if you make it easier for gay people to be themselves in society there’s going to be a crime wave or dreadful homosexual murders are going to happen, it’s going to be awful if we do that’, I think we’d rightly dismiss that as scaremongering and we’d say ‘No it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter’. It wouldn’t matter, actually, if there was a slight spike in those statistics because this isn’t about that kind of issue.”

A Week in the War on Women: Monday 20th September - Sunday 26th September (substack.com)

There is a discussion on this thread about this.

"Human Milk" ffs | Mumsnet

I have posted information. I will go and get the links and post them here if people are interested. There has been one case study documented but there anecdotal evidence including new reports of more.

I am including the link to the male people with the lactation fetish (or more precise the self-lactation fetish) who self publish their arousing experiences and ponderances. I think it includes one account about just how sexually charged it felt to actually have a baby attach to their nipple. That male wondered how any mother got through such a sexually arousing experience. I kid you not.

https://www.them.us/story/trans-women-breastfeed

So this is where being kind and nice, 'live and let live' (with zero scrutiny) has got us.

2024, where men's fetishes take priority over the health and safety of newborn babies.

What a time to be alive

I had to hide the thread on it. I can’t bear what’s happening

On the article you shared it’s literally just me, me, me…..“affirm this” “validate that”.

I feel sick to my stomach. I had no idea we had reached this point.

It gets worse. Women who discuss it online in Australia can be told they have broken the law. Because a male centred experience (there is no proven robust study done on these secretions to show they are safe in the long term) must only be celebrated apparently.

Two Australian Women Told They Broke The Law After Criticizing Trans-Identified Male Breastfeeding Child - Reduxx

You can wear what you like and call yourself whatever you want but your sex is a biological fact and you need to use the spaces accordingly regardless of how you identify that day

So it’s 2024 and females aren’t able to point out peadophillia?

When you start to rip back the layers, some of those who declare 'live and let live' really don't want to know. Some would like to live in ignorance so they can say they never knew. Often that is behind the cries of 'don't let the daily mail manipulate you!' It is devoid of understanding the reality. That the BBC and Guardian offer up very glamourising articles and will not simply report the truth. Sometimes the Beeb takes days to report on something and only after it has gauged public opinion first by seeing the reaction on line.

Is the daily mail clickbait? Absolutely! Does it have some feminist writers that are highly ethical and respected? Absolutely! Is daily mail now considered a mainstream media resource that is free access? Absolutely!

Should people search further once they have read the daily mail? fucking oath! Of course. Just like they need to search further when reading anything published by the bbc and the guardian.

well, when you can't prove that the male involved is a sexual fetishist, we have no where to go.

The way I see trans people (trans women in particular) painted as evil perverts so often online is just so alien to me,

II find it interesting that you bring up how trans women are seen online yet do not mention the trans women that are online that threaten violence, abuse, rape and death to women. (or anyone that doesn't have the same opinion as them.

I know quite a few trans people, and all of them want to live normal lives. And all of them, when we have discussed being trans and the surrounding issues, are against those that threaten violence etc. in their name.

I find it disingenuous that you have only put forward the view that trans people are nice and respectful when you don't have to go down an internet rabbit hole to see that quite a few (and their allies) are not nice.

My network recognise biology men and biological women.
They also recognise men who want to be women and dress and act as such and women who want to be men and dress and act as such.

The later does not trump the former in terms of rights.
Male only spaces and female only spaces are there to segregate people for safety based on biology
Male only sports and female only sports are there to make sport fare and equal for contestants based on biology.
Women only rape centres are there for women to heal and are not mixed to safeguard women from the sex that has caused that trauma

We cannot change our innate biology,

Any thoughtful human being would understand this and keep away from spaces that are not for them.
The trans community should campaign for trans spaces if they do not ‘feel comfortable’ in the spaces already provided and aligned with their biology.