What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Mine range from being very pro trans, to thinking that trans people are mentally ill.
Most sit in the middle- no issue with being trans but also want to protect women’s spaces

Horrific, as usual real women, especially those standing up for their rights are seen as fair game for violent men, while useful idiots stand on an applaud, not seeing the serious harms being done.

No one actually talks about them in my network. It has never come up. I hear way more about it on MN than I do anywhere else. I hear about trans celebrities here and there but as a whole, the topic isn’t really discussed on my Facebook and Instagram.

Indeed, most seem to feel that caring strongly about trans matters either way is generally a massive middle class privilege, and there really are A LOT of things people should be a lot more angry about than this.....

I think this is a very odd take as the women most affected by men in their spaces tend to be the most marginalised in society. Prisoners, abuse victims, the sick and disabled, orthodox religious.

How much information would you like? You might prefer to do your own research on the following things. And by research I mean that you should not discount that media you were so quick to disparage. Because regardless of what your own prejudice about that media has led you to dismiss, many people use even media they disagree with to then find the original source of the information to make up their own minds. Yes, it takes effort, but that is way it is these days isn't it?

Topics you could consider that might be negative impacts that parents face as immediate issues for their children:

Start with what is the source of transgender identities and is it a social contagion as has been identified yet rejected for being transphobic.

Safeguarding issues are being dangerously compromised. There are male children being housed with female children on school away trips. There are male teens being allowed to camp in tents with female teens according to Girl Guides. Girl Guides by the way had a male person with a fetish that they published photos about on social media who was not just a group leader, they were a district leader responsible for the safeguarding and policies for GG. Girl Guiding reported some women who complained to the police for their complaints.

Toilets therefore have become a major issue for students. Schools over covid started to change their toilets into mixed sex to accommodate gender identity. This has led to girls now excluding themselves from using toilets through out the UK. They fear bullying and embarassment. With the number of peer on peer rapes in our schools, it also means that girls are having to use the toilets where they might encounter their rapist. If there are single sex toilets available, some schools have allowed male students with trans identities to use those toilets. While you, personally, might not have an issue with yourself using the toilet with a male person, the number of bleed throughs that I had in school that I don't believe has changed, means that there is now reduced privacy in school toilets away from the male gaze.

Sports is an issue. Even at primary school stage, male athletes are proven to have advantages pre-puberty. Many people on MN have dismissed this. However, why should girls accept a lack of fair sport and the chance to be rewarded for outstanding achievement in sport because a male athlete has been able to win? It is fucking hard to get girls into sport and to stay there. Why have we as a society allowed a further impediment to be put in front of their potential? I am also very happy to link up a very long list of evidence that proves that both male people with puberty have benefits that are not removed by treatment and that pre-pubescent male children have advantages over female children. A new study came out just the other day in fact.

Schools have been socially transitioning children without the parents knowing. I know of two children where this has been done. Dr Hilary Cass, a leading peadiatric specialist has been given the role of investigating what has been happening to our children. She has stated clearly that social transition is not a neutral act and it can cause extensive harm to children despite what many heavily invested support groups have advocated. It took the current government a very long time to publish guidance taking her work into consideration. But they have now. I am happy to link you up with Dr Cass' work and the guidelines. Dr Cass is due to publish her next report which is expected to contain more studies and reviews in the next month or so. Still, the interim report is very clear.

The medical treatment for gender dysphoria has been considered now as not based on evidence by numerous countries and even the WHO has declared that there is no strong evidence to suggest that the treatment plans that have led to irreversible procedures and drugs have not improved the lives of the children and adolescents receiving these treatments. While you might feel this doesn't impact you, my own teen was in a group of 7 friends and one by one five of them declared trans identities. So, great that you are not impacted. I started reading up about this because I needed to know what might happen to my own child. I am very happy to provide you with numerous links that I have compiled on this topic.

I am quite happy to discuss these and other issues where gender identity is negatively impacting children's futures directly. I figured this is enough to start with. And frankly, looking at this, it is fucking significant but there are so many more including the indirect impacts.

For anyone who wishes to still attempt to position prioritising sex over gender in regards to the needs of female people as a polarised 'far right' wing concept, perhaps you need to tell this to the Danish Government.

Thread by @LeatherGc on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

The ruling, left wing Social Democrats’ equality minister Marie Bjerre made the unequivocal statement that in the govts view:
-There are only two sexes
⁃Transmen are women and transwomen are men
⁃Sex is observed, not assigned
⁃A woman is an adult human female

Sex is a universally understood and scientifically proven concept. If we can move on from the constant discussion that cycles back to 'a male can become a female person if they feel they are' we can get to effort of working out equitable solutions.

@Helleofabore a really big thank you from me for taking the time to spell out the issues involved, I’ve learned more from this thread than I’ve done in years.

People in my circle believe that Trans people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect and most wouldn't want to socialise with anyone who thought it was funny or acceptable to mock them. I have worked with a couple of Trans people (that I know of) and they were well-liked, competent and treated like any other valued member of the team.

Many of my friends have no problem with Transwomen sharing their spaces, but they generally accept that some women do have an issue with this and are respectful of their point of view. A couple of people in my circle have expressed that they feel that single sex spaces should be protected, but they make the case for a 'third space' rather than Transwomen being forced to use male facilities. Fortunately, they are also capable of accepting that some women have a different view and don't automatically accuse women who disagree with them of being "handmaidens" or "MRA's" as often happens on MN.

No worries RecentError. I am very much someone who is constantly reading about this because there is so much misinformation and cognitive dissonance. It blows my mind that some people with children can dismiss this. I know several friends outside of my teen's friend group who have teenage boys who are struggling to cope with knowing what is the best way forward, so I know not just girls but boys directly impacted. Parents struggle because it is very hard to find evidence and there are so many people who dismiss it as a 'non-issue'.

And it is very hard to find evidence, because when it comes to studies into the medical care for these children and adolescents, there has been an acknowledgment by impartial gender clinicians that since about 2018 what was considered good practice is not really applicable. Yet, this constantly gets denied. There are people who are so heavily invested in total affirmation that they cannot acknowledge that the current cohort of adolescent transitioners is dominated by female people. And NOT ONE support group has expressed concern or curiosity as to why!

The question we have to keep asking is : who benefits from this? And the answer needs to look at who inadvertently might benefit because perhaps those people provide a completely different perspective to what is happening.

Lots to think about from many quarters, thanks. Wishing everyone, of all persuasions and none, a happy weekend ✨

But they don't stay out of womens spaces or womens sports... that's the problem!

This, live and let live as long as no others are harmed. But there are a huge amount of mental health related ‘trans projecting’ teens who aren’t being looked after properly. Not enough access to CAMHS etc I am afraid harm is being done by not acknowledging that not all the teens presenting as trans really are - but all are being affirmed as such to keep people happy.
at all girls school dd1 had 3 in her year of 180, all had serious mental health difficulties, dd2 has 7 in her year similar back stories one of whom was on hormone blockers etc then in yr 10 decided she wasn’t a he, became an emo etc my worry and those of many parents I know is while there are no doubt legitimate cases who have always wanted to present at the other sex there are also those (particularly teenage girls round here) who have other issues and on hitting puberty are back-pedalling on their developing bodies by thinking becoming male will keep them out of the male / social media / peer judgement gaze perhaps. They seem to be the same types of kid who when I was at school 80/90s turned to anorexia or bulimia. As others have mentioned glam rock / New Romantic / punk / goth identities etc were a normal part of finding your tribe and identity as a teenager But all can be moved on from or adapted if you want, as you grow, puberty blockers can’t. The mystery is how we have got to a point where Stonewall has somehow infiltrated so many institutions and large companies that a child’s mental health doesn’t come before showing that you are checking a box for inclusivity - anyone pointing out the emperor has no clothes is immediately jumped on. It’s all getting very 1984.

Why does not believing in trans ideology mean you 'hate' trans people?

This is typical of the hysterics which goes along with the ideology. The irony is that 'trans' cant even be defined.

I’d like to thank @Helleofabore for her unstinting patience and extremely informative posts on here (and many threads).

It seems to me (and, forgive me, I’ve said this before)that if you “can’t see a problem” with any aspect of extreme trans ideology and its effects on women and children… well, you haven’t really thought about it for more than a nanosecond.

And it’s not acceptable to weakly point to some exceptions (sport, prisons etc) whilst simultaneously simpering about being fully accepting of the trans community and referring to TERFS with distaste. Those views make you a TERF

The other clowns like @gannett who just plop on to spout nonsense without sticking around to back it up are obvious TRAs.

But other people of normal intelligence have no excuse. It matters. Engage your brain.

Welcome to the world of the TRAs. Any opinion that doesn't give trans people everything they demand is trans hatred. Literal genocide.

No. Hence the part about conversations needed to ensure fairness and safety for EVERYONE.

Which trans ideology would deem to be transphobic. Transwomen are literally women, did you not realise?

Just a really fresh example of why some parents feel that immediate action is needed, please read this substack. This article is about the John Lewis Partnership new magazine. In it is an glamourising article about a mother who has agreed to transition her child. And in that particular article that mother recommends Mermaids.

The Trans Takeover of John Lewis - James Esses

'The Mermaids parents forum offers a safe and supportive space for parents to ask questions and learn from other parents of trans children.
'Mermaids offers a number of YouTube videos and tips for both parents and trans children on their website.
'Social media has also helped spread the word, with influencers sharing their own personal experiences with transitioning.
'Some also share tips on how to safely use clothing and equipment to achieve a person's desired gender identity, for example, chest binders.'

This is the same Mermaids that sent free binders to children, had a paedophile aligned trustee and I believe one of their comms people posted pornographic images of themselves on their social media.

Mermaids sending free binders to teen girls | Mumsnet

Regulator announces statutory inquiry into Mermaids - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Yet here is John Lewis recommending them via this Mother's testimony. And that mother is then promoting the use of chest binders for female children. And breast binding is harmful to female children yet is so often dismissed by well intentioned people as 'just a necessary treatment' (No, it is not).

It seems (I have not got a copy of this magazine to check) that JLP published this Mother's words including repeating the falsehood about suicide if children do not receive treatment. This is very dangerous and harmful misinformation that John Lewis management have allowed to be published. And yet, this afternoon, they doubled down on publishing it.

The fact that so many people do seem to not see the issues here, the lack of safeguarding that JL has supported etc, is concerning. That there are posters on this thread who actively dismiss this through their attempts at telling parents and feminists where they should be focusing their efforts because in their eyes, it is a non-issue, well, that does need to be recognised as a silencing tactic.

They think the same as me, that trans people deserve to live peaceful lives but spaces for women need to stay that way. And that men shouldn't be allowed to cheat compete in women's sport.

Dress as you please and date/have sex with whomever you want as long as it’s consensual.

But no-one changes biological sex, no one is non binary and transitioning children is abuse. There is no place for the male bodied, however they identify and how ever they have tried to alter themselves, in women only spaces.

I’ve met transwomen and they were very nice people. I’d like them to be able to live as they please but when there is a clash of rights (i.e. a transwoman’s right to use the bathroom of their choice and a woman’s right to have a male free space), the path of least harm must prevail. The rights, identities and safeties of women trump everything else in that situation.

Almost everyone around me feels the same way. A few are tying themselves in knots trying to “be kind” but the vast majority feel as I do.

Mostly my network has a live and let live attitude. They tend to agree that transwomen shouldn't be in places like rape crisis centres and women's changing rooms, and also shouldn't be allowed to take part in women's sport, and they don't go along with stuff like saying men can have periods. However, they're perfectly happy to use 'she' for a trans woman and, I think, are pretty unhappy about some of the hate they see amongst some sections of feminism.

How do they feel about the hate aimed at feminists asking for all the things you say transwomen shouldn't have to be reserved to be female only?

Did you see the signs asking for feminists to be decapitated and the men in black masks intimidating them?

That's it in a nutshell, really.

Read back what you’ve written and try to think critically about it. For the love of god.

You do understand that by holding these views you and your network would be considered transphobic by the TRA movement? You’re denying their right to say they ARE women.

This is when I realised I had to take a side.