What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

When you look into a lot of the claims including the numbers that commit suicide. They have been solidly debunked.

I asked because the majority of the people I know think the trans stuff has become quite clownish. I specifically remember going to my sister's house who had the Glamour magazine with the "pregnant man". And all 12 people there (late 20s, London professionals) pointed out the utter ridiculousness of a person claiming to be a man after being inseminated/impregnated.

But if we're mostly all on the same page it's odd that JK Rowling can be cancelled etc.

Thanks @FrippEnos That’s a relief. Skewed stats are never useful for any demographic.

It seems to me that, contrary to some of the likely well-meaning comments - “it’s a non-issue”, “it doesn’t ever come up”, “it doesn’t affect me” etc - it’s about joining up the dots.

Absolute non-issue to be honest.

I know a few people who have transitioned in one direction or another, as do most of my circle - they are as boring, middle aged and tired of life as the rest of us.

If Joan is happier as John, good for him.. My main concern is still what to have for dinner tonight!

There are outliers as with everything; but for every pregnant male identifying person on a magazine cover or vocal trans woman on Twitter there are a hundred who just want to live in peace and congruence with themselves.

Have to agree with this.

Yes there will be a minority who game the system (that rapist fella Bryson who was sent to prison in Scotland), but the rest who are genuine and who will only be happy as the gender they believe they should always have been I'm behind them completely (albeit not competing in women's sports).

Really interesting thread!

Very liberal highly educated group of uni friends in mid thirties. A few years ago it was all TWAW and don't be silly, sports are not an issue. Now, it can't be discussed because it's so divisive. There are a couple of trenchant TWAW but the rest are closer GCs. In particular, the lesbians in the group are very upset about it all and those who have now had children are much clearer about the reality of biological sex. It makes me think that the new generation coming through may see things differently as they get older.

Interestingly, teacher friends are beyond concerned.

@Salaaaaaaaah so you're not actually behind them completely then are you?

I don't know anyone who gives this a second thought if I am being honest. I've only seen trans issues as a problem on MN and SM. Its never talked about in real life.

Groups in few countries. Central European side - Live and let live as long as they don't impact our safety and rights - so no changing rooms until full surgery, no women's sports ever. Generally the opinion is that it's MH issue (which it is) so as long as it doesn't negatively affect others, let them do whatever. That's shared amongst most. But British side seems to be much more... "we must be inclusive no matter what". One friend is very pro and it's an ex friend now by her choice because "I don't fancy guys in my toilets" was akin to calling for genocide.
However, one of the groups (non european) did have big issues with their young kids at school being taught about this and one was asked at the grand age of 9 if he feels like a boy or not as part of some lesson. They moved from UK now (been in UK few years, various reasons but also their 12 year old daughter didn't feel safe really with guys catvalling her on street)

Funnily enough, I grew up with neighbour being trans woman (not in uk). The difference in attitude then and now is massive. She (he still at the time, before full surgery) was 6ft something broad shoulder person. She never went into the pub toilet with us young girls and waited out until we left, only after surgery she just normally walked in. She never went around offering "as a woman". Very respectful and understanding that army trained, large and strong man's body will be intimidating to young girls in places like toilets even if it is in a skirt. Lovely person and no one had issues with her.

I feel sorry for these people who just eant to quietly get on with their life and screeching minority is ruining it and brings in the hate.

It’s often not talked about because it’s not safe to do so.

MN was always one of the only places where this issue could be discussed - and even then very carefully with certain words censored.

Other places shut down GC content immediately, such as Reddit, whose biggest lesbian subreddit is porn, and other lesbian groups are mainly populated by TW.

Women have been arrested and sacked for discussing this, many have lost friends for questioning the accepted TRA script, even just because of passing comments.

If it was ok to discuss in real life women wouldn’t be shut down at every turn like they are. Women meeting to speak wouldn’t be protested (or arrested) as they are. We wouldn’t face death threats, rape with girldick threats, harassment assisted by the police in several cases.

It’s not a topic that can be discussed easily, so wide eyed innocence about this not being a big deal rather flies in the face of the evidence of hard work and threats to keep up the silence on a topic that clearly has some questionable aspects when it comes to women’s rights and safeguarding.

I do wonder if the 'all fine but not in sport' group here realise they are GC.

None of my friends or colleagues have an issue with transpeople, but one BIL is gender critical and 85YO MIL can't get her head round it at all.

"Yes there will be a minority who game the system (that rapist fella Bryson who was sent to prison in Scotland), but the rest who are genuine and who will only be happy as the gender they believe they should always have been I'm behind them completely (albeit not competing in women's sports)."

@Salaaaaaaaah that makes you gender critical. HTH

Most people I know think it's the dangerous nonsense that it is. Wear what you want but you cannot change sex. Trans women are not women. They want to be but that doesn't mean they are or ever will be. We don't want men in our safe spaces or sports. Children shouldn't be exposed to drag events. Men should be in women's prisons . People are going to look back on this time and think wtf. It's an embarrassment that people are crawling to placate other peoples fetish.

• men shouldn't be in women's prisons sorry, not should

People can be whoever they like, and I will give them the respect they deserve. My friends also feel the same way.

No one cares, non issue

In my family it’s viewed as ridiculous (purely scientific reasoning) to concerning re single sex spaces and sports. Vast age range but all agreeing. None have an issue with being who you want to be, as long as it doesn’t force belief systems onto others. Some of the younger members voicing GC opinions I didn’t think they had.

In my friendship group it’s a bit more contentious. The LBGT+ more TWAW than most. My much younger friends are telling me the scales are tipping and more younger people are voicing GC views.

What it isn’t is a priority for the election. Most see it as (deliberately) distracting from larger more pressing issues.

No. You can't say it's a "non issue" whilst also saying that trans people cannot compete in the gender they choose or go in any spaces they deem theirs. That is transphobic.

I think most people won't give you their true opinion for fear of being shunned so go along with the popular trendy viewpoint. Deep down most people know if you've got a cock and balls you're a man.

We have the same arrangement at work. The toilets were already unisex when the organisation first leased the building in 2007.

I have never heard anyone voice an issue about it, and I have never been aware of them "reeking of male urine" as a PP upthread mentioned, presumably because my male colleagues are perfectly capable of using a toilet properly and flushing it without pissing everywhere.

It's a complete non-issue.

I can't get as worked up about it as a lot of the posters on mumsnet which makes me wonder if I'm just stupid (but my education/ career seem to indicate that's not the case.)

I do think biological men shouldn't be in women's spaces or sports. But when it comes to changing rooms, I have only gone to those with individual cubicles for my whole adult life so that's a non issue for me.

I know staying it's not a big deal on mumsnet will likely be very controversial though!

Are you thinking that 'well-to-do' people think in a different way to others?

My circle is fully accepting of trans people. We acknowledge there are specific instances where it may not be appropriate to treat them entirely as their presenting gender, for example in sports or when deciding which prison someone should be sent to, and I know a few of us think more research is needed into the long-term affects of treating trans children with drugs, but in day to day life we are all happy to treat trans people as they would like to be treated, using the name and pronouns they prefer.

Can I ask all those who declare ‘live and let live’, have you ever actually thought about the needs of women who need single sex spaces, sport and the children who are caught up in this ideological mess? Or is it that it never touches your life so far so you don’t care?

If it was you in the refuge because you ended up with nowhere left to turn, would you be as blithely ‘live and let live’ at sharing a room with a male who was there? Did any of you read the account posted upthread of the male wanking to porn in the room and think, that is ok?

Have you read the accounts of women in prison raising the alarm that a male prisoner was sexually abusive to her and then being punished for doing so and thought, so what?

I see the term ‘live and let live’ being repeated here. But it actually is now coming across more like ‘I am alright Jack so therefore I don’t care’. Or is it ‘until it directly impacts me negatively, I am not going to go against what I perceive is the kind view’?

I actually think those who plop down ‘it is not an issue, so I don’t care’ are at least honest. That single line seems more appropriate. They have the privilege where it has never negatively impacted their life.