What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

You have asked everyone you know, from the postman to your boss, if they also hate trans people?!
And did you assume that when they backed away slowly and changed the subject, that that implied agreement?

As I said upthread. A male with their penis and testes removed, is just like any other male with their penis and testes removed. There is no evidence that anything else changes. For instance, They don’t lose their male physical advantages. This has been proven in peer reviewed studies. Their grip strength, for instance, is on average hugely stronger than female grip strength. I think it is the weakest quartile is still stronger than the strongest female decile.

Female people who have taken testosterone and had extreme body modifications have personally written posts on MN to tell us that they understand that they may distress other female people. They will seek alternative solutions because of the changes they chose to make. They apparently have apps to plan their days to find appropriate toilets. Because female people often have a better result to these treatments than male people. But they also have the female perspective on not causing female people distress by their presence.

Some Butch lesbians have told
us what they do if they a woman asks them if they are in the right toilet. They speak. Because the voices more often than not reflect their sex. Either way, they sometimes thank the woman asking for taking the time to ask and thank them for looking out for others. There are a few ‘butch’ women who take offense. But there are plenty who simply answer that they are female.

We don't understand why young people are so desperate to label and pigeonhole themselves.

There were millions of goths, new romantics, punks and ladettes when I was a teen. They wore makeup, dabbled with random clothes. It was just a teen thing everywhere you went, uk, europe, americci.

Now they're making out it's some kind of 'new thing' and making a hugely ridiculous big deal about it like they invented it or something.

We're like 'meh' 'whatever', 'get over yourself'. Been there done that. Stop playing the hard done by victim. Nothing new.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX sorry let me clearer. The poster you responded to asked for examples of what rights trans people don't have, and you provided a response describing discrimination which is a right they have.

You go on to talk about verbal abuse which again isn't a scenario specific to trans people.

So I'm not getting your point and there remains no clarity on what rights trans people don't already have.

Except that often the term 'rights' in its legal form is often conflated with 'wants' which so then impede on the same set of rights for all people.

I couldn’t give a shit if people want identify as a different gender or dress differently or have reasignment surgery as it doesn’t effect my life in any way, like most things other people choose to do!

I’m not sure about self ID when it comes to using women’s toilets etc as it is open to abuse, and MTF shouldn’t compete in women’s sports as the male physiology makes the competition unfair.

I think if mixed sex toilets became common place it would have to be individual toilets, like disabled ones are currently. No communal sink areas and securely locking doors.

You're grasping there @Lea3, a complete rewrite of the posters words.

This is an immense generalisation being used as a cognitive distortion. It is not convincing.

I'm also Brighton and I'd say all of my friends are TWAW (25-50ish). Also friends with a couple of older lesbians who are fiercely against it though.

I’m really puzzled. Why is ‘not believing’ equated with ‘hatred’?

Non issue we are a non judgementental family and friendship group

Because it is so those that follow the new trans gender ideology can claim to be oppressed.

Because if you don’t believe you must be a hater .

Or something.

It is tribal. It is authoritarian and totalitarian. But we are assured it is not all trans people and I would like to believe this. However, many people here attempting to shame others for not believing are not trans people either. It is important to remember that.

Every single normal person I know is GC. I am aware of ‘friends of friends’ in the LGBTQ+ community who are sympathetic but I’m dubious as to whether they are fully suspended in disbelief. They just spout allyship and put fingers in ears and La La La to any genuine concerns about women’s dignity and rights. Sigh.

Re the toilets. Yes. Which is currently already stated in building regulations for public places.

But a period of cost cutting has meant it's been ignored. Recently there was a paper of some sort about all these places being made to rectify their provisions.

But it only solves one small element.

I will always remember the story of the pensioner on the NHS ward who was raped,l and when she reported it was told it didn't happen, because there were no men on the ward. Except there was wasn't there. Not only was she raped she was then institutionally gaslighted and lied to by an organisation that is meant to serve and protect us.

No matter the difference in all our opinions
On this thread, we all need to agree that that was wrong on every level and should never have been allowed to happen.

That man's 'right' to be treated as a woman was more important than the woman's right to safety, dignity, fear from persecution.

This is about safeguarding vulnerable people or people in a vulnerable position.

Always has been.

I only know two trans people in real life, one is a child and not yet reached puberty so is a non issue for us and our children. They know she was born a boy. The other is an adult trans woman and she's treated like any other woman I know and it's not hard. She's respectful and choses individual changing rooms (wouldn't come into women's). She doesn't have her gender listed on her parkrun profile and doesn't compete in sport. Her trans friends do the same.

As a family we are supportive and accepting.

Thanks @FrippEnos and @Helleofabore

So no room for critical thinking. That’s disappointing.

It’s not something that comes up in conversation with most people I know but when it has, I can’t remember anyone being of the opinion that it should be agreed with (the belief that you can change sex, men can have periods, give birth, breastfeed, women are born with penises etc) or bought into as anything other than a severe mental illness and should be treated as such.

The government should certainly not be complicit via the NHS in providing anything other than mental health treatment.

My "network" doesn't talk about it as there is nothing to discuss, really. I let people be who they want to be. If they want to be referred to as they/them etc, that's obviously fine. Not my buisness and I'll refer to you however you want. It makes no difference to my life but it does to yours. 'Older generation, whatever that is, have been around long enough to have come across this too. It's not a new thing, so don't think they, as a group, think the same. Just like any other age group doesn't. The older people I know are very acceptant and understanding of other people. Most of what peoole have said on this thread is anecdotal and biased and seems to be the product of your social setting. Same for me. I work in a very inclusive type of office, we have peoole from all walks of life and from all around the world. What you notice is, how we are all the same, and all different at the same time.

Interesting thread OP.

It's reassuring to see that most people agree , broadly speaking, with JK Rowling, that people can present as they want and love who they want but Sex Matters when it comes to fairness to women.

This is not what the trans activists would have us believe is it!?

I would also add, in my opinion, the descriptions of transphobia which really aren't transphobic into 'hate' were also pedalled by the likes of Stonewall in order to increase the volume of hate crime events for political gain, instrumenting their own financial gain.

The infiltration they had on so many government departments and private companies was astonishing.

You will notice over on X formally
Known as twitter, the volume of 'hate crime' events and arrests has slowed dramatically since their downfall.

Am 43, lefty as heck. Most my age women think it's silly nonsense, but live and let live. But agree it shouldn't be taken as 'real' ie. know that humans can't actually change sex.
Gay male friends my age and younger agree too. Nonsense.
Younger female friends late 20s early 30s fully bought into it. Likewise drama teacher friend.
Younger male friends, more right leaning than me think live and let live but also nonsense.
Teens I know coming out the other side of toying with labelling themselves neutral.
So yeah, it's actually the 20-30 women who are really into it! Seem to think it's all about being kind to a poor troubled minority and that being gender critical is somehow tied in with believing you should conform to stereotypes for your sex when actually it's the exact opposite!

Professional network (English based) mostly think trans women are women, ultra woke and those who are GC are too scared to say anything

Professional network (Scottish based) mostly GC, but not a big issue generally

Friends and family - think it's all crazy people on the internet, rarely comes up in conversation, not an issue day to day

1. That some adult people genuinely suffer from gender dysphoria which is a psychological problem, that should be treated as such;
2. That a larger number of children like to play at being the opposite gender but do not grow up to have gender dysphoria;
3. That an increasing number of teenagers and young adults with mental health problems and/or neurodivergence are being encouraged to think this might be because they are trans (by their peers and by medical professionals) and therefore are self-harming and submitting themselves to medical and even surgical abuse, setting themselves up for a lifetime of ongoing health problems, both physical and mental;
4. That there is an entirely separate category of men who get off on the idea of being women and are calling themselves trans so that we can get to take part in their sexual fetish;
5. That there is yet another category of men calling themselves trans deliberately to access women only spaces in order to assault women.

People in 1 deserve a lot of sympathy and support, but not acceptance of their delusion. 2 is very normal and always has been, can be safely ignored. 3 is incredibly concerning and there needs to be a massive overhaul of safeguarding to protect these vulnerable teens and young adults.

Anyone in 4 and 5 deserves no sympathy at all.

But obviously women are women and trans is nonsense. This is literally obvious to everyone.

Men who identify as women are still men, you know that right and they maintain the same patterns of offending as men who identify as men. The truth is that women know a male when they see one, regardless of how he may choose to identify. Its not possible to control other peoples perception of you and these women who have been traumatised by men and deserve a space free of males will suffer and lose support because some people think that males deserve to transgress women's boundaries.

Look at this thread for a start: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3692730-Person-in-womens-shelter-boasts-about-spirting-erection-shelter-supports-her

Thanks @YoBeaches

Perhaps the ‘trans genocide’ / ‘eliminating us out of existence’ etc accusations are best taken with a pinch of salt.