In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

This is not the same, as an adopted child does not usually have contact with his other parents, and definitely does not stand to inherit legally from them, whereas step children most definitely have another family and would inherit if that family died without a will (and would usually be the beneficiaries of that will).

If the view that step children should be treated the same as bio children that is commonly held in mumsnet applied in the real world, then children like me from first marriages would inherit from 4 people, while the children from the last marriage would only inherit from 2. How would that be fair?

I'm so sorry you've had that experience - fuck your in-laws, putting it politely.

Getting more personal than I'd intended here, and derailing slightly, but our children are donor conceived. My mother loves them so so absolutely, and their not being bio related to her makes NO difference.

I absolutely believe love is a choice - if you choose to go all in on a child, and be an active part of raising and loving them then their lack of biological relationship means NOTHING with regards to how you love them. But if you're half out the door from the beginning because they're not 'really' related; well the story is writing itself there.

Maybe your DH can pacify this parents saying he’ll ring fence a percentage fir their grandchild more than your son gets

I’m guessing his parents believe that your DH should leave his full half of house to your joint DC, and then you would leave your half to both children… so your son gets quarter and the youngest get 3/4?

@CatherinedeBourgh except it's not just about money, far from it. The OP has explained all the ways in which the in-laws are clearly showing that they don't consider the step-child part of the family (although at times they seem to have realised and taken steps to rectify their behaviour).

If the OP is confident somehow that her first born will inherit something from her father, then wills can be arranged to take such disparities into account.

Let's not forget that this child has known her step-father and his parents from a very, very young age as well. The hard thing about wills, inheritance etc is the emotional component and the statement you make when you decide what you do with your money - whether that's what you intend or not.

The in-laws here are making a very clear statement about how they view this child and it's heartbreaking.

I don’t like the way they treat your son. Sorry they sound horrible

I really feel for your son, he will definitely pick up on being treated like that.
I’d limit the time spent around them

Your partner's family is horrible to treat a child in this manner.

Horrible.

Surely your partner must see this, op. Surely.

Technically the other brother should hand back a percentage too, his wife stands to benefit if they divorce !

Wills are the last communication a person has with the deceased. It's really important to be careful how we express ourselves in that final written document because so many people equate it with how much/little they were loved or valued.
Theres no definitive right way to do a will because everyone's family set up and financial situation is different, but where people choose to leave more to one child, to compensate for what the other child will receive from another branch of the family, it should be made clear that this is about financial equality and not amount of love.

But honestly I can't imagine having a child in my life from the age of 2 and not loving them or seeing them as my family and going to deliberate effort to make sure they never get anything of mine! It's just fucking horrible. And they are willing to alienate their own son in order to do it. Crazy!
I wouldn't be willing to compromise on this by ring fencing shares - what you do with the house is purely a matter for the OP and her DH.
Asking for a gift back, just so that they can stop a little kid they've known forever from benefiting is something a parent really can't forgive. They've utterly trashed their relationship now.

Even married 5 years + a child and contributing towards household expenses, mortgage etc

The in-laws trying to protect their £80k investment are too late.

Personally unless the in laws do a complete 180 I don’t see how this family as a whole can move forward.

There is such unfair treatment, not only of the eldest but in trying to make things fair, the youngest isn’t able to go to events because it would mean his brother being left out.
The other children and grandchildren in the family get to enjoy the gifts the in laws give freely but this section of the family are either treated as an after thought, don’t get or have to repay with interest as rules are brought in as and when.

I would be advising the dh to not waste his life on people who’s love and gifts come with strings attached and concentrate on his own family.

I would give the dh prior warning to get used to the idea that when his parent pass on he won’t be in their wills.

It seems that the family is all about bloodlines and any deviation even if it costs them £0.

I think that the in-laws are of a certain age and are obviously well off and I can hazard a guess that no one has ever said No to them and think rules and laws don’t apply to them.

Your DH should really refuse to return any amount of the financial gift given and absolutely do not include any extra amount. Just no, full stop.

I think you should also distance yourself from the family, have nothing more yo do with them and let your DH have whatever relationship he wants with them going forward.

The DH should not be placating his parents. Don't give into bullies and people who try to control.

Reading this situation really makes me angry for you OP.
The deposit was a gift to your dh before you came in the scene.
Your dh signed up to a relationship with both you and your ds, and in my opinion your in-laws must respect that. Its not uncommon in this day and age.
Any arrangements made for inheritance of your marital monies is between you and your dh. It's not the business of your in-laws now or in the future.
To ask for it back because you have a ds from a previous relationship, is quite frankly, cruel, and controlling.
I'm a Nana. My ds partner came with a dd now aged 8. They also blessed me with my own dgd now aged 3. Apart from a savings account for the 3 yr old, I treat them both the same in every way. The 8 yr old receives a small allowance into her bank account from me each month without fail. They both stay over, both receive the same treats, equal expenditure at Christmas and birthdays, both come away with me and my dp. I respect the fact that the 8yr is part of my ds life and therefore she is for all intents and purposes, my inherited dgd and part of my family. She is also the older sister of the 3yr old and they adore each other. I would never exclude her from anything, it's not her fault this is the situation.
When my ds inherits from me, I can guarantee there will be no restrictions on who is to receive what when the time comes for him to make those decisions.
I hope it works out for you OP 💐

If it's any help, the law assumes that this sort of transfer of money is a gift. So it would be up to DH's parents to prove otherwise. They cannot change their original intention 15 years on.

I realise this is only a part answer as you have to deal with the fallout of the request. I guess the response to that depends on how keen you and DH are to maintain a relationship with them. From what you've said, their behaviour leaves a very unpleasant taste. I am so sorry that you are both having to deal with this.

I don't know if this is at all helpful! But we have a similar setup, one child from my marriage and one born to an earlier partner. Both kids are treated identically by my husband's family but my eldest has savings from his Dad's side. We handle that by putting away more for our youngest so that overall they have equal amounts. Long term I imagine we will do the same as much as is possible. Perhaps this kind of arrangement might put their minds at rest a bit? It's strange though, I don't understand why they would care so much x

I absolutely believe love is a choice - if you choose to go all in on a child, and be an active part of raising and loving them then their lack of biological relationship means NOTHING with regards to how you love them. But if you're half out the door from the beginning because they're not 'really' related; well the story is writing itself there.

I agree with you. I was actually thinking about this thread yesterday and I think that we as humans (and not just humans, think of news stories of cats raising litters of rabbits or hens raising clutches of ducks) are wired to love baby humans that we care for. In fact, we extend that to baby and even grown animals of other species when we get a puppy or a kitten or adopt an adult pet.
We're wired to bond and care like this to continue the survival of our genes, however our wiring isn't that clever and discerning - it's the acts of proximity and caring that trigger the love.
It's an act of will and a conscious decision therefore to remain at such a distance as to not feel love and care.

I do totally get that every situation is different, for instance step-children much older on introduction and having very involved grandparents already, although I'd still expect a baseline of kindness and no obviously unfair treatment day to day.
I really don't understand hardening your heart against a child who was only a toddler when they joined the family.
And to be that precious about your own genetics that you would not trust your adult son to make fair choices and do the right thing, and would actively deprive him and your grandchild out of sheer spite to ensure that someone who doesn't share your oh-so-precious genes does not gain any benefit.

Absolutely you should give the money back. The only reason you have a property is their generous act. Try asking your wn parents to chip in and pay back what is legally owed.

So fil has excluded your dc in the past? And you still see him? Fuck that. Fuck them both op.

We had something similar with my in laws. They gave us a deposit and signed all legal paperwork as a gift. Six months after buying the house I was diagnosed with cancer, and two months after I finished treatment they asked DH for the deposit back on the basis he had had a large pay rise, which he had worked hard to get as I had been out of work and not earning.

It took him 10 months to tell me about this because he was trying to protect me, and it caused a massive decline in his mental health, and in our relationship.

It was a really difficult situation to navigate. Legally we could have declined and there would have been absolutely nothing they could do, but this would have resulted in a complete breakdown of his relationship with his family, and perhaps a further decline in his mental health. We opted to pay them back monthly, and are continuing to do so, but it has been incredibly damaging to the relationships in any event.

Depending when the house was purchased the solicitor should have asked for proof of where money came from for deposit for money laundering purposes. When we had a gifted deposit for our purchase FIL had to prove where money was held (savings acc statements) and signed to say money was a gift and no rights to ask for it back or any right over property. May be worth checking the original documents. If it was a gift then its exactly that, a gift, not a loan but may need to prove that in law. Good luck

Absolutely you should give the money back. The only reason you have a property is their generous act. Try asking your wn parents to chip in and pay back what is legally owed.

Don't be silly. The money was a gift, from the inlaws to their son, many years before the OP even got together with them.
I'd hardly say demanding double the amount back is very "generous" either.

You have to understand this is Mumsnet, where everything you say will be picked apart, you will be told you aren't giving the whole story, are being deliberately obtuse or trying to take advantage of the in laws etc etc.. take your pick.

I think DH needs to make the point to his parents that whatever unedifying feelings they have about his SC, the gift was to him and returning it penalises him; that it’s very upsetting for him and will inevitably blight his relationship with his parents - is that what they really want? Are they so focused on money that they’re prepared to wreck their relationship with their son?

Some Italians can be very tribal - famiglia, famiglia - hence the issue with the SC. But the plus side is that they will not want to fall out with DH.

But that's not unrealistic, given her elder child will inherit from his father.