In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

It was a gift. Keep it. They're barking.

Exactly - seems like the £80k was gifted as early inheritance, at the time at least PIL could afford to gift their children £80k child.

Unless there was an agreement the £80k would be repaid, or PIL’s financial situation has vastly shifted, it seems mad they would risk splitting up the family on the chance OP’s eldest would possibly receive a 1/3 split of their £80k. £25k is a lot of money but when you can afford to gift £80k per child it doesn’t seem enough to rip your family apart over.

(obviously if OP and H buy a bigger house then her eldest might receive a lot more money than that in total, but the amount they could receive from the IL’s original gift is not significant in the grand scheme of things.

Haven’t rtft, only OP’s posts, so not sure if this has been mentioned before.

You can go to a solicitor and have a post nup agreement done and you can also alter your wills to ensure that whatever % of the house value (or future house values) contributed by the in-laws is ear marked for the biological grandchildren only in the event of your husbands death.

The way that they’ve decided to do this is unfair. But in a round about way there is something needing to be done here - because as it stands your first child is going to inherit from you, the bio father and step father, whereas all further children are going to have you and your DH alone. Never mind the in-laws, you are going to have problems between the siblings if one benefits more than the others financially.

Don’t give the gift back, but something needs to be done to redress the imbalance in financial benefit.

How incredibly spiteful
They must regard your DC as an outcast
How cruel
As there are no legal documents to say it was a loan, I don't think they have a legal to stand on
Obviously it would end your relationship with them, but that's no loss
As you and your DH are on the same page
Maybe contact a solicitor if you feel if necessary.
I'm really sorry

?? It states: "my half-sister will get half of my mum's house".

The poster and her full sibling will share the other half. The half-sister is more than adequately recognised in the will.

Do they not buy your eldest a birthday/christmas gift either?! How awful that they are being so spiteful over this. Thats giving you a clear message isnt it. Stick two fingers ip to them and tell them to f off, i dont think your dh should give it back to them let aline double. Disgusting

One of my friends has 2 DC from her first marriage and one from her second. Her PiL don't acknowledge the 2 older ones even though they have been living with her 2nd husband since they were 3 and 5.

They refused to invite them to their 50th wedding anniversary party. My friend therefore didn't go as she had no one to leave them with, so her husband and their joint child had to go without her. They never give presents or money to them as their argument is that they get all that from their dad's family.

Their logic doesn't make sense.

When you and your DH die and we presume you have both made wills and the amount splits equally between your three children, there will actually be a lot LESS for ALL the children because your inlaws will have withdrawn around 30% of the value of the house. So 70% remaining equity will get split three ways, instead of 100% split three ways.

So they inadvertently (maybe they've not thought this through!) disadvantage their biological GC by taking away from the overall pie.

They are assuming their DS, your DH will leave his portion of his estate to his biological children only, but if he informs them that this won't be the case and you come as a package and he treats the child like an adopted son, then perhaps they'll understand they're reducing what their GC will not, get in fact managing to cut out the older DS.

What a sad state of affairs. Money does strange things to people.

I imagine your poor DH is gutted. It's a very judgmental thing to suddenly declare.

They are Italian? What happened to the catholic, christian way of being inclusive, accepting etc?

Bizarre.

@CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo Maybe we are reading that post differently

I read it as

House is 50/50 Mum and Stepdad

Mums share goes to PP and sister (25% each)

Stepdads share goes to half sister (who is presumably mums third DD)

So in that scenario Mum is not leaving anything of her share in the house to her third DD.

We have this situation in our family and the third child IS getting inheritance from both her parents, it would feel unfair otherwise.

Shocking and petty to treat children like that. I find it incredible.

At the end of the day, half-sister still gets half the house and the other two get a quarter each. If it's the father of child 3 leaving the half share, then why on earth would child1 &2 have to have anything come out of their shared half? Doesn't make sense - in that case, child3 would be getting more than 50% so the mother would be disadvantaging C1&2 by leaving anything to C3.

If your dh doesn't tell them to fuck right off, then I'd be seriously reconsidering this relationship. I assume the original 'gift' was in fact a gift. Because it's a bit dubious (er, fraud) to get a mortgage based on a 'gift' that is really a loan, and they will have needed to sign documents to that extent.

Your dh is an adult, who has made a decision about who he shares his life with. He has brought assets into the marriage and presumably so have you. I personally have equally contentious issues with my family over a monetary gift that eventually went towards the deposit on the house dh and I own. I am NC with my family now, in part, because of the rumours and lies that were spread about dh and I in relation to this money - which ultimately, had nothing to do with the money, but were a smoke screen to distract from the actual very serious reasons we are NC.

Ultimately, it comes down to a questioning of your and your dh's integrity and values. They seem to think you are a gold digger and that your dh can't make a sensible adult decision about his finances. I would hope that neither are true, so I hope he tells them to fuck off and they aren't getting any of that money back. I'd be pretty upset if, in the same situation, dh didn't stand up for me.

It does get complicated. The father of my first two has died so we know what they inherited so in our case we are dividing things so they all end up with the same amount . My husband isn't reserving "his" half to go to our joint children as some of "his" half will go to the other two but knowing what they have already inherited means we can make it fair although I'm sure some will disagree and say what we have should be equally split. If we split it equally it would mean the older two will end up with more, a six figure sum so not insignificant.

Oh my goodness, this happened to me, although only a tiny sum of £1750 as a 5% deposit, and they were my parents and no step kids involved.

House bought with now DH in 2002, deposit given by my father, never mentioned again. Moved away 2010, and eventually sold house in 2012. Did the house up and tried to start a business so no equity left at point of sale. No mention of deposit at all up to this point.

2014 DH out of work looking for a job, I got made redundant, currently looking for a job. 2 DC, we're living in a flat and DC sleeping on a mattress on the floor. We are flat broke, food on a credit card broke. My grandmother dies and the rest of her estate (not house, as that had been dealt with years ago) was to be divided equally amongst the grandchildren. She was not rich or even well off at all. At her wake my father asks for "that £2k back." Their mortgage free house 3 nice holidays a year are obviously not enough. I was floored and terribly upset. It ruined our relationship and I went NC.

It's been cathartic reading everyone's responses.

Sorry this happened to you all OP, you don't need that kind of awful behaviour in your life. Big unmumsnetty hugs.

I would say no. It was a gift. They're the ones who have already damaged the relationship by asking this, not you by refusing to comply.

They want "their" money back so your child doesn't benefit? That's nasty. Why do they dislike your child? What vile people.

Don't give them the money back. It's not their money. It was a gift, not an investment.

@JaffaCake24

I wouldn’t rule out that they will take the £160/80k and put in in trust for the biological grandchildren.

Nor would I rule out them changing their wills, reducing the share of their estate going to the DH in the event of their death. Potentially they will cut him out entirely in favour of his biological children to ensure their money goes to people they are related to, rather than risk him passing on money equally, thus reducing the amount going to their biological relatives in favour of sponsoring someone they are not related to.

OP this is just the beginning if they are adamant they do not want to contribute financially to non-biological relatives or to support their son in doing so.

This is disgraceful behaviour on their part - there is no excuse for it. I say this as a step child and a step parent (as well
as a biological parent). The thought of treating people like this is abhorrent. I do know of several families who have split estates based on whether children are biological or not, but to ask for money back, that’s harsh. Your DH will need to have a frank conversation with them, but giving them double back seems ridiculous.

Really? A sister? The husband has 2 siblings. Why is it just the female sibling that's under (completely unjustified) suspicion?

They sound mean and controling. It would be good to be careful about trusting them!

On the money - it depends:

Their deposit gift was generous - if a gift. If it was - they should not be asking for it back! Doing so is rude. Accept nothing else from them.

If it was a loan (and they didn't ask to have an interest in what their son invested it in or share of profits) then they should have the money and a reasonable rate of interest back if they want to.

If they want to take the deposit back and any money he has made on the house... they need to remember that since he married, he only owns half the house. A proportion of how much he himself has gained might be smaller than they are expecting. :)

What are you going to do OP?

It's not your in laws' money any more though, is it? It hasn't been theirs for 20 years. Unless it's been documented as a loan. It's weird how they still think of it as theirs, after so long, and still more odd that they would rather spite their biological grandchildren, by asking for double the amount back, than see your eldest child potentially get some of it in the distant future. They sound very materialistic and controlling.

They sound awful! It's the wanting double the amount back that's the worst part. Like the whole transaction was an investment.
I could perhaps get passed it if they had only asked for the 80k, but wanting the interest is completely uncalled for and not family minded.
If I was your DH, I'd say they could have their 80k back and ask them if it was worth damaging their relationship for.

Firstly, I would forget about giving them the £160k. It's just ridiculous, even the mortgage company doesn't get paid back a proportion of the increase in value of the property and that's when it's a loan arrangement. This was a gift, which you say was acknowledged.

Regarding the £80k, your DH could propose that that amount is ringfenced out of his inheritance to his own children and is paid to his biological child or children. That may appease them. My brother has exactly that arrangement with my parents. They gave us both £20k to buy a property. For me, it's not an issue as DH matched my deposit and we bought together going in 50/50. The £20k given to my brother was their entire house deposit and his wife does have an elder daughter from a previous relationship. They now have two more children together. My brother's will is set that £20k from the value of the house goes to his two biological children and his half of his inheritance gets split two ways. His wife's half is split three ways between her three children. Of course is my brother dies first there's no saying his wife would honour that agreement but I believe she would. The main thing is my parents are comfortable with that arrangement and DB and SIL are in agreement, and it was the arrangement made from the moment DB and SIL were joining finances.

I would actually do what a PP suggested and get your in laws to email your DH outlining their request and the reasons for it. It will sound totally batshit written down. Tell them it's because you need to get financial advice. Get your DH to handle all the communication with his parents, do not get directly involved.

I would also encourage him to speak to his siblings and tell them that the parents are asking for not only the original gift back but double the amount because he happened to marry someone with a child. I would be disgusted if this were my parents asking my brother for the gift back.

I would have thought it would be income tax on the interest/'profit' element of the 'loan' 🤔. (but not a tax expert)