In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

I'd be inclined to give them their deposit plus the increase of that money in inflation ters - not the increase in terms of the house.

To clarify, if DH got 10k 15 yrs ago, that's equivalent to about 15k today. https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/2009-to-present-value?
amount=10000&year2=2024&frequency=yearly

Are you close to your in Laws? Does your dh have a father son relationship?

Tell them to go look at an inflation calculator instead. The house's increase in value is related to how well you and your husband have looked after it.

https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/2009-to-present-value?amount=10000&year2=2024&frequency=yearly

Say no.

And if they don't want anything to do with you after consider that a huge benefit.

The ILs obviously did not like their son marrying someone who already had a child. Maybe they thought their son could do better. Honestly it is valid if that is their opinion. Parents want the best for their children and it might be their genuine view.

They may even the score with less inheritance, that’s the obvious solution for the ILs.

Sorry to hear you’re going through this. I have two step children and I can’t ever imagine my parents treating them any differently than if they were their biological grandchildren 😢

Tbh when we help our kids out with a deposit, we intend to ring fence it, in event of a divorce.

But a) asking for double the value is awful and b) they aren’t divorcing and c) should have been done at the time of house purchase.

Op do you get on with the in laws?

I don't understand what your plans to conceive or the housing status of your eldests father has to do with it if I'm honest.

I think its reasonable if your house has increased in value over the deposit amount for your dh to pay it back tbh

Sorry how is that a valid reason. What a weird thing to say. It's not valid at all. The best for their son is someone who makes him happy and if it didn't bother the son, why should they be bothered. She's had a child with their son and is planning more! Petty and inflexible if you ask me. Far from valid

Isn't this kind of obvious?

Right now they gave that deposit years before her marriage, it could be argued its possibly not a marital asset.

If they move, the house her & DH buy together will be clearly a joint/marital asset and longer term that means a share of the value they provided as a deposit is likely to go to OPs elder child. They do not want that to happen and its pretty obvious why, its not their grandchild.

Just tell them No and go no contact. They sound absolutely awful.

DH's dad, is that you?

There is nothing ethical about rescinding a gift plus the same amount again, as a punishment for bad behaviour under the guise of "interest' because you don't approve of the woman your son married.

*I'd be inclined to give them their deposit plus the increase of that money in inflation ters - not the increase in terms of the house.

To clarify, if DH got 10k 15 yrs ago, that's equivalent to about 15k today.*

This is balls - uk property values have increased by way more than inflation in some areas during that time. I bought a property for 350k in 2012 that I sold for 550k 3 years later, all i did to it was repaint the kitchen in cheap white emulsion and the area didn't change at all, no new transport or suddenly desirable school etc. Property prices in 2009 were very depressed post recession, it was right at the bottom of the market.

Wow! What an awful thing to do. I wouldn’t give them anything if it as a gift, never mind double.

It was a gift and even if you gave them that money back they certainly don't deserve double the amount. Obviously it will create an awful family situation, but they are awful people to ask this.

Usually when a gift is given for a mortgage, they have to put in writing that it is a gift and not a loan. Even if it were a loan they wouldn't get double back!

They don't want your child to benefit as it is not blood related to them. A lot of people think like that. But it is none of their business what their son, your DH, does with his house, his money etc. Presumably if anything happened to DH then you would get the house? Does he have life insurance to clear the remaining mortgage? If you don't sell the house and stay there, then they can't have any money? If your DH passed, would they be hounding you for the money? Your DH really needs to stamp on this, but it won't be easy for him to stand up to them.

Sorry but they are complete arseholes and I feel sorry for your DH for them doing that to him and putting him in this position.

You do not have to repay them, unless there is something written down that DH borrowed £80K and would repay £160K. Which is 100% interest.

Why was just the daughter's deposit protected and not both their sons? If one of them marries somebody with a child will they do the same to them? They should have ring fenced all the deposits , not just the female one.

So when they write their wills out, are they going to not leave anything to your DH in case it gets left to your DS?

I would also give them the money and never see them again. This is just so unbelievably awful. My eldest daughter is treated exactly the same as my second daughter by my in laws. They still say she was their first grandchild so will always be special. I bet you're so sad. You cannot have a relationship with them moving forwards. What's your ever son done to them?!

They sound like an absolute pair of cunts.

It still leaves you with £350k as a deposit on a new home, so is the shock about DH’s parents excluding your elder child?

I’d give them the £160k and then go NC with them. I really cannot have the “blood is thicker than bread and water” attitude in my family.

The grandparents didn't invest a penny - they gave their son some money.

If it was a loan with interest they'd have documentation (to facilitate the mortgage application).

Deciding (5 years later) to unilaterally change expectations is rubbish.

You need to find the unspoken undertones of the request.
a gift in any form is a gift - no strings attached, unless otherwise expressed or documented; the in-laws should naturally be pleased you have made a wise investment for the family.

retracting a gift and placing terms is motivations of a different sort.
Are the in-laws uncomfortable with the relationship?
Are the in-laws struggling financially?
Do they need help?
Are siblings using emotional strings on the parents to and redistribute DH property gains to others who have been less fortunate?

in the event the inlaws are financially comfortable and just want to make life difficult; suggest:
a couple of sobering facts for the inlaws to ;

UK savings interest & mortgage rates have averaged sub 5% the past 15 yrs+;

inflation has detrimentally affected savings accounts, stripping any significant compounding interest gains;

for eg: investing £80k in an ac earnings 2% (interest compounding quarterly for 15 yrs - only yields circa £108k; (excluding tax); a far stretch from 50% tax free increase.

DH’s house is not a personal House ISA, doubling their equity figure, from a crystal ball.

earnings and gains are tax free - the quantum of equity requested may be deemed as income or gifting duties and or a contribution to stamp duty that was paid on the house.

inlaws the inlaws benefiting from improvements you may have undertaken to the house to lift its value.

The sudden excessive request seems to be more an emotional trigger or lever, vs an actual financial. You need to uncover why? DH needs to sort this out otherwise it will make for strained family relationships.

It was a gift. They cannot ask for it back, especially not double! Simplest way would be to stay there and keep it as it is. Or you do move but explain that you cannot afford to move, if you give them what they ask for. Just refuse to give it. Out of interest, have they asked for their deposits back from their other children? If not, it's probably a bit of blackmail to keep you guys nearby.

Look, are they otherwise nice, caring, helpful, supportive grandparents? Are they good people to have in your life?
Or are these people who you and DH are really not bothered about?
Because the dynamic plays a part in any advice I would give.

That’s really awful of them.

Of course they can’t claim the original gift back, let alone double what it was!

They sound like terrible people. Keep the deposit and cut them off.

I'm guessing they saw the money as investments in their children's and (blood) grandchildren's futures. Not for spouses and their families. Now they're seeing that money becoming yours and part of your child's future so they want it back. SIL was smart to have hers ringfenced tbh. But unless they had a formal arrangement with their son over the money, they can't demand it back.

the devil is in the detail
something op isn’t too keen on sharing