“You can’t possibly have a baby in that flat”

[Mellowpink]

DH and I are in our late 30s and finally decided to start trying for a baby before it’s too late. Mentioned this to my sister, expecting excitement, but she had a totally different reaction. We live in Zone 3 SW London in a 2 bed 3rd floor flat. It's an old building, so no lift, just steep stairs. And our second "bedroom" is more like a box room, currently my home office.

My sister insists it's too dangerous and cramped to raise a child here. I said I’m sure we could make it work, but she says I just don't get it as I'm not a parent yet. We've thought about moving, but staying close to central London for work is a must as we are hybrid workers. We looked at houses in Surrey but prices seem to be crazy, and with interest rates, we'd be paying a more just to inconvenience ourselves by being further out.

Am I crazy to think we can handle raising a baby here?

Where will the baby be when you go back down to get the pram chassis.

We didnt have a tumble drier (or space) but had a balcony. Could you get a washer/drier? That at least would semi dry things

I lived in a 1 bed iuntil my daughter was 1 and it was easy once in the flat. The stairs were tiring but my arms were so toned from the exercise (lost now sadly)! Have a massive clear put before the baby arrives and try to keep clutter free- you'll be fine. Put in extra storage now if you can, but also but second hand so you can give away baby things the minute you don't need them any more- bouncer,baby bath, walkers etc. Check Facebook/ vinted and fara children's charity shops. Strongly recommend baby yoyo or similar and a babybjorn type sling until about 6 months, then use an ergo. Be strict with toys and keep giving away - do toy rotation. If you have 2 bedrooms you won't have to plan to move. London is so much fun with kids - start following people like bablands on Instagram for inspiration and tidydad- lots of tricks for living in a smaller place with kids. Once you have been on the tube/trains once or twice you get used to it and maternity leave in London is a lot of fun. Lastly if you can breast feed , it helps not to have bottle cleaning things everywhere and much easier to get out and about- although no pressure on this one!

Sounds fine for a baby, but if you’re hybrid worker then where are you planning to work when the baby is at home and you don’t have a home office anymore?!

This is the kind of situation that is doable and liveable, but over time trying to juggle in not enough space will take a massive toll on your MH.

You can move later on of course. But it is lovely to have a baby in the place you’re going to raise him/her because you get to know people and the area and those links can provide a lasting benefit.

Also a child is forever but a job not so much - offices move, you might move jobs…

If you have the opportunity to move for a bit more space then your sister isn’t unreasonable to suggest it (and depending where you work in London, Surrey is surely not the only option as an alternative area - research all transport options to work and look around a bit at places you might not have thought of).

But please don’t kid yourself into thinking that wfh from the kitchen table with a toddler is going to be anything other than a nightmare (and yes it will happen, because unexpected things happen, they get sick and have to be off nursery, and then one of you will need to take time off and if the other is at home that day you’ve suddenly got the opposite of a pleasant working environment in which to take those zoom calls!)

De-humidifier if you don't have a tumble dryer.

You can make anything work. I'd recommend leaving the pushchair in the boot of the car if you have one. In colder months take a hot water bottle to warm it up before putting baby in.

I have loads of friends who had babies whilst living in 'impractical' flats. One of them just had her second and is on the fourth floor of a liftless building.

The truth is that you adapt and adjust to the living situation you have. A baby doesn't actually take up much space at first. Your biggest priority is a pram that can is most practical for getting up and down stairs. Aforementioned friend carried baby down in sling, backpack and had a really light weight and easy to fold pram.

They also don't need a massive room. Ours now mostly plays in living room. Really only sleeps in her bedroom. You will have way less baby proofing than in a house or a two story.

Personally, I wouldn't put off trying until you have the 'ideal' living situation. You are actually very typical of a lot of families that are city based.

You can do it, especially with a car to store the pushchair in, but it doesn’t sound like much fun.

I would look to move, but not necessarily further out SW. You might well be able to get a house and garden in zone 3 SE.

I did this in London with my first child. We had 65 stairs. We bought a small shed to put at the front to store the pushchair - sometimes it was stored in the car boot. Carried baby up and always had a largish backpack to carry the perishable groceries up. The non perishables I kept in the car boot and my husband would bring them up when he got home. You can always carry baby up and leave them safely in the cot while you go back down to sort out pushchair etc. Once my dd was crawling I used to make a game of it and throw the housekeys or a toy up a few stairs and get her to crawl upstairs after them. She also became very good at bumping downstairs on her bottom while I held on to one hand.

Somewhere safe I presume - with the other parent, in a cot, in a playpen. Just like anyone does when they have to take their eye off their baby for a short while.

It’s to keep all the paraphernalia she wants at ground level : pram etc! Think of it as a mobile shed you can go for weekend excursions to the countryside in.

You don't need a car if you're in London OP. You don't carry all the baby junk as you don't have the space. I'm always shocked when I go home and see women transporting their baby with like half a nursery. We pack what we need.and it all fits comfortably in a back pack. If you really need a car for a journey you can just use a zipcar.

Of course it's fine. If one of you has to be off with a sick toddler then presumably the other can just go to the office for space. If you're zone 2/3 it's no big deal.

We're zone 3 borders and most of the DC's friends live in flats. It's not an automatic SS referral. Get a sling.

I think this is a suburbs/city lifestyle clash thing (same with thinking you need a car). Londoners live in smaller spaces and go out a lot- but we get loads of free stuff to do close to our houses and excellent parks which become neighbourhood hangouts.

Don't move now, what if you can't conceive and end up in darkest Surrey for nothing? You can reasses if/when the baby comes.

Another vote for don't delay if you're ready. Practicalities can be sorted. The main thing babies need is loving parents.

As others have said, especially if you don't have a car, I wouldn't even bother with a pram just use a sling/carrier from the start. Then a really lightweight buggy ehen they're older. And keep your baby purchases to a minimum. Babies don't need loads of the stuff people buy for them.

If you're able once baby is a bit older or you're ready for a second one then maybe you can move. But if not, you'll make it work. People manage in much worse accommodation.

How much baby junk do people carry!? Newborns need hardly anything if you breastfeed- change of clothes, wipes, couple of nappies. I could literally fit that in sizeable pockets. I had a lovely time going to baby cinema and galleries on mat leave! Most people we know also don't have cars and zipcar or uber if essential, but why faff with parking.

My mum had my brother in the early 70s. She and my dad were living in a top floor flat. No lift, steep stairs, no storage for the large pram.
They moved within eight months.
Like others I don't think the size of your flat is an issue, at least not for a few years but I think the stairs will be a nightmare. Not just when you have a baby but it could be dangerous for a toddler or even a child in early primary school years.

We brought our baby up in a pretty small 1 bed flat till he was just turned 2, moved to house after that. We actually loved sharing a room/bed with him and it was nice in the early days to have everything to hand without having to go into different rooms etc.

The main issue was we were both stuck in the living room after bedtime and couldn't have evenings to ourselves unless one of us lay in the pitch dark in bedroom. But you won't have that issue if baby going in box room.

I think it would be quite hard 2 onwards though as they have a lot of energy to burn and short attention spans.

😂that would have made things hard indeed!

no LIFT unfortunately a lot of stairs

Practical things that have kept us going in a small 3rd floor flat for nearly 3 years from newborn before buying a home with a garden:

-As PPs have said, a tumble dryer. No room for a dishwasher which we don't mind. Tumble dryer however is essential.

-Leave the pram downstairs

-Scrap the changing bag. Just use your favourite rucksack.

-De-clutter and keep on top of it. Embrace a minimal life and really question what you need. Don't get swamped by a lot of stuff you really don't need.

-Door frame bouncers are a great space saver. My son loved his before he was walking.

-When baby is a bit older start a toy rotation. We have an ikea Kallax unit in our living room and rotate the toys out every couple of weeks. All of his toys are in a cupboard in our bedroom and only a select few come out at a time (except for the most beloved toys like special teddies or Duplo etc that are played with constantly)

-Look at ways to save space. We have a fold down table in our kitchen and fold down chairs that hang flat on hooks on our wall. We have a sofa bed in our living room so that there is a spare bed. Sickness with toddlers and babies is miserable and you and your husband might need that extra bed on occasion. It's worth getting a really decent one that's a good couch as well as a good bed. We went with Swyft as they're designed for delivery to flats and very comfortable.

-Use wall space. We have my husband's bike and son's balance bike mounted on the wall in our hallway as well as some things in our son's room to free up floor space: book racks, magnet board with a little basket of magnetic letters and animals, busy board. My husband also built deep shelves above some of our doorways. The doors open underneath them but we can store things above head height well out the road. You can be clever with the dead space in your flat. We even have hooks in our bedroom where we hang our son's pikler triangle when he's not playing with it.

-Invest in the best noise cancelling headphones you can get for working from home.

Not a very comfortable setting but not a the end of the world. You had the baby and if you don't adapt because of no lift you can always move after. There is plenty of solutions, like a really light pram, leave the pram in the car if you got one and just carry the basket. No need to postpone to have the baby just because a lift.

I brought up my child in a first floor flat. Yes, carrying a buggy up and down was annoying but it's not forever. And as long as there's public space for LO to run around in nearby you can wear them out quite easily.

It's normal in London to grow up in a flat.

Many family houses have quite a lot of steps inside and typically no lifts. I'd guess that people living with children in three storey houses do more steps in a day than people living on the third floor.

UK mumsnetters are obsessed with living in houses, but when I am reading here about old damp houses in which families can't afford to heat them properly and rural lifestyle when children can't get any autonomy because they had to be driven everywhere, it sounds much worse than a few years of carrying the child up and down a steps.

Absolutely perfect explanation.

When I was pregnant, living in a 2 bed 3rd floor flat with no lift, and my mum was stressing on at me constantly about how we absolutely had to move before the baby arrived, that was pretty much the response I gave her.

Yes, the stairs were a faff with the buggy, but it was wonderful living within walking centre of the city centre, living in a really beautiful, quiet area of the city, living within walking distance of all our social network, which is also very important when you've got a little baby... Upsizing would have meant leaving all of that behind.

Just make sure you buy a very very light buggy. One you can carry buggy and baby in one.

As you are late 30s I would not delay TTC. We started trying at 30 and it wasn't until I was 34 that we managed to have our first baby.

Living in a 2 bed 3rd floor flat isn't ideal but I am sure you could manage for a time. I think though you would need to have a longer term plan re accommodation.