“You can’t possibly have a baby in that flat”

[Mellowpink]

DH and I are in our late 30s and finally decided to start trying for a baby before it’s too late. Mentioned this to my sister, expecting excitement, but she had a totally different reaction. We live in Zone 3 SW London in a 2 bed 3rd floor flat. It's an old building, so no lift, just steep stairs. And our second "bedroom" is more like a box room, currently my home office.

My sister insists it's too dangerous and cramped to raise a child here. I said I’m sure we could make it work, but she says I just don't get it as I'm not a parent yet. We've thought about moving, but staying close to central London for work is a must as we are hybrid workers. We looked at houses in Surrey but prices seem to be crazy, and with interest rates, we'd be paying a more just to inconvenience ourselves by being further out.

Am I crazy to think we can handle raising a baby here?

just get a sling and a rucksack, if they'll let you put up a hook for a pram down stairs.

it's london most people raise babies in flats you'll be fine.

It’s all very well saying it’ll be hell, don’t do it etc. but the reality of our unfair, unbalanced and out of touch with reality housing market means many people can’t afford houses. OP I raised my kids in a 2 bed 1st floor zone 3 flat. We’re still there, they are now 17 and 20 ( we have had an extension done in the intervening time). Obviously I would have loved a house, but in London, with me being a mid ranking NHS worker and DH working in social care it wasn’t going to happen. OH and I grew up in flats anyway.

The changing bag can either be kept in the car or use a backpack style one. I managed to keep changing bag items to a minimum - rolled up changing pad, zip lock bag of wipes, 2 or 3 nappies, small bottle of water for me and for extra washing of poop-coated baby, plusna spare onesie. I kept a towel in the car.

It's not just about OP and whether it would be a great hassle (which it obviously would) it's about the child.

Children need outside space and not to be dragged up three flights of stairs as they get older. In a lot of ways, it's not that dissimilar to having a large dog in a flat.

You can do it and the dog will be alive and healthy-ish but its quality of life won't be as good and it won't be as happy as if it was living in a house with a garden no matter how much you take it out and for long walks. People who think they want a dog and are entitled to one will do it and then get defensive about any suggestion its less than ideal for the dog because "their dog is very happy" but it's just daft to suggest it's the best quality of life for a dog. It's selfish really because they want a dog and they will make it work for them never mind the dog.

Same is true for a child. Children pick up on environments. A mother going up and down three flights of stairs with a child, leaving it alone to go back down to get the buggy will be exhausted and resentful. As the child ages and becomes a toddler it has limited space to move around in, can't easily be taken outside in hot weather it's up and down 3 flights. Its doable but not really fair to the child.

You would be ok until the baby started walking and was too heavy to carry up and down three flights of stairs. So 0-1yr old. After that, I think your sister is right. You can’t have a toddler in a flat like that.

It’s not about raising a child in a flat. It is about a 3rd floor flat with no lift that is really a one bedroom plus box room flat.

😂

I currently have a two year old that I have raised in a first floor flat with no lift for the past two years. Yes, it’s a bit annoying to lug a pushchair up and down the stairs but it is perfectly clean and safe. Everything in the flat is child safe. Health visitor team always says how good her speech/vocabulary is etc So your sister is being ridiculous. Don’t let her scare or shame you and just go ahead and ttc before it’s too late!

I grew up in a 2 bed (lived in it with my parents till I was 19) in the city centre and loved it. In fact, I'm more outdoorsy, sporty and like gardening more than any of my friends who grew up in large houses in suburbia or the countryside! So I've never understood why I'd be at a disadvantage.. I played team sports at school, hung out in the local park, and had my own room to study in - so never noticed the lack of space. My mum and dad never had any problems with lack of space when I was a baby either - not like I needed much at that age!

In cities outside the UK, anywhere in Europe or Asia for example, it's really common to raise kids in city apartments and even seen as desirable. Access to culture, museums, diversity, loads of options for hobbies is as important as a big house. The UK is a bit strange with the insistence that children need a lot of space and big houses to be happy. Kids adjust to what they have and if they grow up in the city, they'll have plenty of friends in similar situations.

When child is older and needs their own room, you can look to move to a 2.5/3 bed still in the city - but you have enough time to consider your options.

You don't need to be a sheep and follow the herd. Do what is best for your situation.

We lived in a similar flat when DD was born and thought we would be fine. We moved four months later.

Once my daughter started walking she started walking up the stairs. (How else would she learn) This tread is ridiculous and offensive.

Ah, remember the days when you just emptied out a sideboard drawer, padded it with a wee quilt, and tucked a newborn into that for a crib. When you parked the pram several flights down, on the front stoop, with the bairn in it, and nothing bad happened. Those tenements had outdoor toilets too, and baths were in a sit tub in front of the fireplace. We've grown very pampered, lazy, entitled ...

Your sister sounds like the kind of person who turns her nose up at travelling by bus. Sheer snobbery.

Juggling one or more babies/toddlers in a small space, whilst also working from home, with little money and less sleep, is going to be the biggest issue. So have practical solutions ready, and be clear about a long-term plan.

You can change your living situation but you can’t change biology - your fertility is declining.

Have the baby and move 12-18 months after that if the accommodation is genuinely untenable.

Good luck ttc. I hope it happens soon.

Unless you believe the child will need to get out three times a day to pee against a lamppost, you're barking up the wrong tree there in your analogy.

Yeah this. Your sister is thinking about how she made things work and recognising that she couldn't do x in a third floor walk up.

You'll be wanting to research slings and baby wearing

@Ghosttofu99

Once my daughter started walking she started walking up the stairs. (How else would she learn) This tread is ridiculous and offensive.

Same here. Two and a half year old started going up the steps gradually at one year old. Now he walks them all by himself with me holding his hand. 3 flights up, just like the OP.

Yes, there are some seriously offensive posts on here. Some people are proper soft.

Totally up to you! Your baby will be fine in a small double room.

The stairs sound a pain in the arse, but they won't harm your baby - just your back maybe(!)

Fwiw, we had our first dc while living in a 2 bed rental flat in Surrey funnily enough. It was fine. I used a baby carrier instead of a pram. Only used the pram at weekends really when I had a spare pair of hands to carry the chassis up and down the stairs. We were only one floor up though. It would obviously be worse with more stairs.

But I also don't agree that you absolutely have to stay in London to work (hybrid) in London! So many people commute in as I'm sure you know.

But it's a totally valid choice to stay in the city. It'll be fine if that's what you want and larger families have lived in smaller flats than what you're suggesting! Still do - it will be fine.

Yanbu

What is offensive about not wanting to force a 15 month old up three flights of stairs every time you take them out? Or worrying about them falling down concrete stairs? Have you ever tried to help a 15 month old up or down three flights of stairs with a pram, shopping bags, and nappy bag?

I know everyone has said buggy storage is the main issue - if i were you i'd approach the other flat owners now and say we're having a baby and we'd like to pay for and install a bike store for the buggy - would anyone object?

I bought both my kids up in a two bedroom 3rd floor flat, with no lift, yes the stairs are a pain with pram and shopping and later with bikes and scooters up and down, but it can be done, both my kids now in there 20's and no lasting effects. In fact growing up in central London mae them confident to negotatate most places they travelled to as they were used to from 11 getting tubes and buses to school.

@Tumteetiddlytum same. both of mine learned to walk stairs. to be honest, stairs are much more of a hazard in a house anyway….
And for the garden - by the time kids properly make use of a garden (unsupervised ), they are like 4 to 5 years old. before that, there are playgrounds, nursery, playgroup, park. It’s not like a toddler plays for hours unsupervised in the garden. you have to be with them, so can as well go to the park.
We (now) have a garden. Didn’t miss it when tbe kids are younger, but now at 7 and 10 its useful.

What is offensive about not wanting to force a 15 month old up three flights of stairs every time you take them out? Or worrying about them falling down concrete stairs? Have you ever tried to help a 15 month old up or down three flights of stairs with a pram, shopping bags, and nappy bag?

Force? 🤦🏼‍♀️ people who don't know shouldn't comment.

Yes I have tried. The pram stays at the bottom, never had a nappy bag- always used my rucksack. Rucksack on bag, hold child's hand, walk upstairs. Not difficult.

At 15 months he was still learning. Maybe one flight holding my hand and 2 I lift him. At 2 and a half he now walks them all holding my hand. At least once a day, every single day. Not an issue.

It's just offensive to all the people for whom this is their every day reality. People live quite happily this way and their children are blossoming.

I mean, there are people with the physical strength to do these things just fine. There's a lot of women in poor physical health, with not much stamina/struggle to carry prams, go up stairs etc and I think it's then a valid choice to not want stairs.

But there's plenty of women who wouldn't find this inconvenient. I remember people saying it was insane to live a 20 min walk from public transport, but I thought it was insane to do barely any exercise and find a 20 min walk "too much". Not sure what message it sends to a child to see their mum struggle with basic activities and tasks needed to maintain cardio and muscular strength. Different strokes for different folks.

Haha! Yes! Down the back stairs, across the courtyard, down the four uneven concrete steps to the basement door, unlock door while balancing laundry basket(s) on hip and standing in deep puddle of slush (there was a drain right outside the door but it frequently got blocked), wade in, then another flight of four uneven steps down, then pat pockets for the quarters I was sure I had put there. Nope, load machine anyway, retrace steps, return with quarters, lock the door, back up the stairs, set a timer, etc. etc. Good times - though I had clearly blocked the concrete steps from my memory.

I'm glad I didn't have to lug wet laundry up the stairs to dry. All my clothes from those days were dryer friendly.

Exactly this! I wish more women used rucksacks to carry things, freeing up their arms. It drives me mad to see women with multiple shopping bags and handbags on their arms, juggling a pram and baby. I think - all that would fit in a massive rucksack and make life so much easier. Hands free is the best way!