to be shocked that TERFs should be raging against kids clothing?

[Preggopreggo]

You cannot be anti-trans whilst also perpetuating a binary with your own children? AIBU?

Surely if the craziness around ‘boy clothes/toys’ and ‘girl clothes/toys’ ended and gender differences became less distinct, then far fewer children would grow up with gender dysphoria and want to transition?

I know very little about all this, so I may be wrong and just can’t find the threads. Please point me in the right direction if this has been discussed already 🙏

Trans is the ultimate in conforming to stereotypes. Mermaids have said that if you are a girl that likes trucks and trains that means you are born in the wrong body and are actually a boy and you need medication (used to castrate sex offenders) and extreme genital surgery to make you conform.
I don't agree with this at all.
I've also been sexually harassed by men dressed as women, pleasuring themselves in the ladies loos.
I think that makes me a TERF.

I do actually agree with the OP on this point. I always told my kids that their sex has nothing to do with their clothes. I dressed all of mine in generic clothes very like I wear.
None of them like stereotypical "girl" clothes and would be in what you consider boy clothes. But this should have nothing to do with sex. A boy can wear a dress and a girl trousers. These are only considered girl or boy things down to a socially constructed gendered bollocks.

A man wearing a dress does not a woman make. But a man can wear a dress if the fancy takes him.

Gendered toys etc. is an easy, tangible campaign target. Simply boycott brands that perpetuate this, yet it seems to have the status of a fringe issue. Let Toys be Toys looks great but I can’t see a mention of the implications for gender identity.

You know what else is an easy, tangible campaign target? No male bodies in women's spaces. You know what another one is? No irreversible hormonal treatment or surgery on children unless medically necessary.

I'm not saying I'm necessarily in support of these targets, but you can't tell me they're not clear and tangible. They can both be enforced by law if there's a will to. Not so much de-gendering clothes, I mean how do you actually define or enforce that? Sounds to me you could spend a lot of time chasing your tail trying to do anything about pink for girls and blue for boys.

What I'm wondering is, why would you prefer feminists (or 'TERFs' if you prefer) to be directing their energies towards the rather more nebulous and indirect goal of de-gendering children's clothesas a way of chipping away at the numbers of children wanting to transition?

Unless I'm very.much mistaken, it seems you have assumed that because GC feminists assert that men can't be women and women can't be men, that that also means we ascribe firmly to gender stereotypes of what a boy and a girl should be.

That's not the case.

I didn't enforce pink clothes on my daughter and blue clothes on my son. They were able to pursue their interests regardless of whether society deemed those masculine or feminine. They have never been told they must do something because of their sex. Nor have they been told they can't do something because of their sex.

There are a great many trans stories that start with, "I knew my son was really a girl when he asked for a doll and not a trainset," just as their are vocal transpeople who, when their backstory is revealed, were told they couldn't wear/play/do x, y, or z because it was "for girls" so they concluded that, if they still wanted to wear/play/do x, y or z, they too must be a girl.

But that is not what GC feminism promotes.

You have misunderstood.

I rage that it is so difficult to buy clothing for babies and toddlers that isn't pink or blue. I try hard to buy neutral colours for them.

In 2024 it is unacceptable. Same goes for styles of shoes for boys and girls.

Whenever I read threads like this I find myself either losing the will to live, or wanting to scream the place down in frustration. Sometimes, as in this case, both.

I think the OP has fallen for the TRA lies that gender critical women want men to be big strong men and women to be at home in a nice frock and frilly apron. That's kind of the TRA stance, that if a person likes baking and pink they must be a woman and if they like cars and beer they must be a man.
GCs know that these are mere personality traits/societal stereotypes and have zero to do with a person's sex.

Both my son and daughter wore nail polish and pink glittery clothes as children when they wanted to. My son had a doll, a pushchair and a toy kitchen. As did my daughter. Because they asked for them.

My son aged with Thomas the Tank Engine too. My daughter didn't because she wasn't interested in it.

See - children allowed to pursue their interests.

None of which had any bearing on their sex.

Men can't become women. Women can't become men. Their interests/clothes have no bearing on this either. A man in a dress is still a man in a dress.

I'm not sure what you're getting at?

I'm a TERF, by definition.

My daughter wears clothes exclusively from the boys section and when my son was a toddler his fave thing to do was dress up in Princess dresses and wear headbands.

Clothes do not define your sex. Wearing clothes that are tradionally for the opposite sex you are doesn't not give you a different 'gender identity' to your sex.

They're just clothes.

So, to clarify, you've started this thread to chastise posters here for not making a campaign against gendered toys and clothing their main priority?

Is that right?

Well done OP, you win today's Most Disingenuous Post Of The Day award 🏆

OP. You admitted in your first post that you know very little about this.
That is clear.
Perhaps you could have a look on the FWR board and do some reading.
You seem confident to use the word Terf, so you must have an idea what you think it means, or maybe you are being disingenuous.
MN places restrictions on discussion of gender ideology, it is mostly confined to FWR.

Many of us have been fighting the battle against ‘This is what a girl looks like and this is what a boy looks like’ since before you were born. Along with ‘Girls can’t be….and Boys can’t be…’
It’s the chromosomes, not the clothing, make up or occupation tnat makes you either male or female.

Every single thread about gender identity is going to have comments on clothing not making the person.

Maybe read some of the threads instead of just the headers?

Congrats OP, I’ve never seen someone get a Wally Of The Day medal before.

Isn't 'TERF' just a misogynistic acronym designed to shame women into accepting those born male as 'women'?

Yes.

The whole girls and boys clothes is marketing - trying to force people to buy more, just because perfectly good clothes doesn't match teh social expectations.

However, as teens and adults, it makes sense to distinguish sex for some of the clothes, shoes, personal protection equipment, heavier backpacks and other items of daily use, because male and female body types do differ and so called unisex is often more targeted to average male than average female body.

Let Toys be Toys looks great but I can’t see a mention of the implications for gender identity.

One of the founding members of either Let Toys Be Toys or Let Clothes Be Clothes, I believe, was well known gender critical campaigner Maya Forstater. Made famous globally by JK Rowling tweeting about her case.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/06/maya-forstater-was-discriminated-against-over-gender-critical-beliefs-tribunal-rules

It was mumsnet feminist chatting that alerted me to the ludicrousness of gendered toys/clothes in the first place. I’d say it’s a solid home base for discussions and agreement around it.

That's the point I was making though. They have mainly been in clothes that I bought in the departments for each sex. My eldest has always been big lad who lives in joggers, jeans, tshirts and hoodies from the boys/mens section. Why would I have tried to squeeze him into leggings from the girls? My girls wear his hand me downs, and clothes that are very much neutral but also pretty dresses and flowery leggings if that's what they want. The fact is, kids clothes are segregated in shops. There's nothing in the girls section that would appeal to my son, he's a big lad who likes sportswear. My daughters can pick from whichever section they want to. They currently like cargo pants, hoodies and football kits. So hardly walking round like mini Kardashians, but if there's a party you bet they want a sparkly dress!
I'm a fan of let clothes be clothes and let toys be toys. I've always tried to live by that, without making it a massive deal. But the fact is, when buying clothes 99% of the time you still have a decision to make on which aisle to buy them from.

OP - feminists (the sensible sort) are absolutely not in favour of gender stereotypes and often actively try to subvert them. Let boys and girls wear what they want and be who they want but know that no human can change sex.

The transactivist crowd are the people you nee to speak to. They are so mired in gender ideology that they think that a boy who wants to wear glitter is actually a girl. Regressive nonsense.

OP conveniently missed out the other points I made.
My kids dress for comfort mostly. I buy them clothes that fit their shape primarily. They've never worn clothes that say things like 'Girls are kind' and 'boys are born to rule'
But I suspect that doesn't fit in with the narrative that OP is trying to push.

Why don't you post this in the Sex and Gender section?? 🤨

Er what???
I am Gender critical ( I believe if gender doesn't mean sex then it is meaningless)
My DS (almost 1) is regularly "misgendered" because he's wearing pink
My DD (almost 3) knows that she is a girl because she has a vagina, and her brother is a boy because he has a willy. She plays with trains, wears dungarees and dinosaur wellies etc...