to be shocked that TERFs should be raging against kids clothing?

[Preggopreggo]

You cannot be anti-trans whilst also perpetuating a binary with your own children? AIBU?

Surely if the craziness around ‘boy clothes/toys’ and ‘girl clothes/toys’ ended and gender differences became less distinct, then far fewer children would grow up with gender dysphoria and want to transition?

I know very little about all this, so I may be wrong and just can’t find the threads. Please point me in the right direction if this has been discussed already 🙏

Hi OP, here is your arse. On a plate. Let me hand it to you.

What are you on about? Feminists have long been arguing against gendered bullshit.

I don't give a shiny if my daughter wears blue.
I have a bigger problem with people with penises in her changing room.

First of all, what research have you done that has enabled you to identify that these "terfs" also embrace the clothing you describe?

What are you talking about?
Of course feminists are not in favour of the sexual stereotyping in children's clothes - or any clothes! Why do you think that's not the case?

Hi all,
We can understand why this post is attracting some reports but having had a look into the background we are inclined to give this poster the benefit of the doubt and will leave her in your wise and guideline-keeping hands.

I voted YABU for starting a thread on a subject you admit you know very little about when you could have searched for previous threads, and without explaining clearly what the voting options meant.

I suggest you look at the Feminism boards if you want to learn about the things you mention.

OP has nicely demonstrated how woefully understood being gender critical is.
Radical feminism really doesn't ascribe to the gender binary - it's a movement that would say dress your kids how you want, or how they want. But putting on a dress doesn't make you female.

That’s odd, all the stories from parents with children that identify as the opposite sex start with clothes and toys.

In fact, I was wondering the other day what a 5 yr old boy, for example, thinks a girl is. I have heard stories about a young girl who told her mum she wanted to be a boy and when asked to elaborate, she reported that boys get to sleep in a bunk bed and she wanted a bunk bed. I can see how the undeveloped categorisation skills and logic of a child would lead them to that conclusion.

And then I wonder how many kids have been deemed trans by their parents on that basis.

@CorylusAgain
‘Of course feminists are not in favour of the sexual stereotyping in children's clothes - or any clothes! Why do you think that's not the case?’

Examples like this: @Fionaville ‘ I could probably be described as a TERF. My kids have mostly had clothes specific to their sex’

Exactly

OP why start a thread with such an inflammatory statement if you don't know what you're talking about?

Of course I'm concerned about gender stereotypes, including clothing. I don't like the term TERF but I would describe myself as a GC feminist. And as a GC feminist I rage against all sorts of things. Including biological men taking womens spaces in sport, biological men in women's prisons, biological men demanding access to women's spaces, plus the fact that women have to be twice as good as men to get the top jobs, that the patriarchal society we live in assumes that it is women who are the carers, the child reares etc.

I rage against the fact that I am told I'm "lucky" if DH "helps me" with the housework.

I rage against the fact that my nieces don't feel safe to walk down streets at night whereas my sons do.

I rage against the fact that, when my friends teenage daughter was raped, lots of people blamed it on her for getting drunk on a night out.

I rage against a lot of things.

I think OP you are assuming that "TERFs", as you call them, are in favour of traditional roles. It may be the case that some people who oppose gender self ID are coming from a stance of being traditional/conservative/religious, and these people might be in favour of traditional gender roles. But that's not the radical feminists. Radical feminists don't generally have a lot in common with the religious right.

What are you using "TERF" to mean, @Preggopreggo ? The initials stand for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. Feminists object to sex-based stereotypes and expectations being forced on to girls/women (and by extension, boys/men) by a sexist patriarchal society. Radical feminists want to look at the roots of that sexism and make changes to those roots in society to change things for women and girls. "Trans-exclusionary" describes the idea that because transwomen are male, they are not included in the category of woman, and so are not the focus or interest of radical feminism. It's not a great descriptor, though, as transmen and those women who describe themselves as non-binary or similar would be included by those radical feminists.

Who are you objecting to, specifically? Have you read a blog, or seen a tweet or a facebook post, or read an article? What has triggered your objections?

Great question!

@EmmaGrundyForPM ‘OP why start a thread with such an inflammatory statement if you don't know what you're talking about?’

In the hope of gaining enlightenment. I couldn’t find any article or thread that explained why there is such a disconnect between the Mumsnet-heavy movement which I shall not name for fear of getting it wrong and the desperate need to deconstruct the gender binary. What am I inflaming?

If society stops telling little boys that they can’t be pink glittery unicorns then surely fewer little boys will ask to be girls??

There seems to be an awful lot of noise about children transitioning, but so little about gendering of children.

Gendered toys etc. is an easy, tangible campaign target. Simply boycott brands that perpetuate this, yet it seems to have the status of a fringe issue. Let Toys be Toys looks great but I can’t see a mention of the implications for gender identity.

Yes, but then you have discounted the fact that I said once they were out of baby clothes i.e I didnt insist on pink or blue and also that my youngest will happily buy clothes from the boys section and has always worn her brothers hand me downs, along with dresses and whatever else tween girls want to wear.
So you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist. That all TERFS will only have girls in pink frilly dresses and boys in tshirts with 'boys rule' on.

Pretty much every thread about gender ideology on FWR will at some point mention or discuss that children should not have sex-based stereotypes and expectations pushed onto them. It is not feminist parents who want to do that.

Firstly, https://terfisaslur.com/

Secondly, https://www.facebook.com/letclothesbeclothes/ which started on Mumsnet.

Gendered toys etc. is an easy, tangible campaign target. Simply boycott brands that perpetuate this, yet it seems to have the status of a fringe issue.

It's a great idea.
Have you started work on it already? Do you have a list of alternative affordable clothing/toy companies which are free of this gender twaddle you can share please?

I'm sure many on here will support your work.

@Preggopreggo This thread has been going since 2018. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

I don’t understand what the issue is OP?
I would consider myself a Gender Critical feminist and loathe genderised clothes, toys, behaviours and stereotypes. Therefore avoid pushing gender specific clothing onto my children. This is also why I’m uncomfortable with men putting on what they consider extreme ‘feminised’ clothing, make-up, and mannerisms and declaring they are now an actual woman.
Surely they are the same issue, and I have no doubt that some of the reasons behind the growing cult of trans is because we have created a culture of gender specific clothing and behaviours.

Remove the gender stuff from society and there is no need for anyone to identify as trans. There is just sex, gender identity is just a social construct.

Of course this is a rather simplified stance which ignores the needs of those poor men with AGP (!!) and the structural disadvantages of being a biological women throughout the world.

You’ve got it mixed up op but maybe you’ve read more on this thread

And the thread title is off for using terf too

There have been dozens and dozens of threads raging about gendered clothing on here

Gender critical feminists do (rightly) take a dim view of it. Also threads on genders toys, stereotypes, etc.

Im not going to do the searching for you, im sure as an adult you can work out the search function yourself. Maybe do that first rather than start goady, inaccurate threads.