To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

You know when you are translating other people's posts? You're not actually translating anything. You're making shit up.

When you describe me as so aligned to the Labour Party... you're making shit up. Do you know why you do that?

Your words:

Those aren’t necessarily the same. I think anything’s better than a Tory government and am happy with the law as it stands. So, come a Labour government, I’ll be happy as a pug in muck.

You are happy with the law as it stands.

So you also believe the wishes of males to be in women's single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces? , no? Because that's what the law as it stands gives preference to.

So what shit am I making up again?

@TooBigForMyBoots so if you're not so aligned to the Labour Party, why won't you call them out on the issue of single sex spaces?

Make it make sense!

"However we know with certainty that Labour will make it worse for women. Biological men will be allowed in to domestic violence shelters, rape crises centres, women’s prisons, women’s and girls changing rooms, girls toilets, women’s sport. And more"

Just your daily reminder that trans women make up about 0.3 % of the population. Most women here have never met a trans woman, let alone been traumatised by the sight of one washing her hands when they come out of a toilet cubicle.

Meanwhile, after 14 years of Conservative government, for the first time in a century the life expectancy of working class women in many areas is now actually falling, and women from poorer backgrounds are living more years of their life in ill health. Conservative government is literally shortening the lives of hundreds of thousands of women through their disastrous handling of public health policy and the NHS.

Nice to know people have got a sense of proportion. 🙄

Institute for Economic Affairs is at 55 Tufton Street

https://www.desmog.com/2023/04/21/tufton-street-linked-donors-have-given-630000-to-the-conservatives-since-sunak-became-prime-minister/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63039558.amp

Just because a source is called "Institute of..." that doesn't make them reasonable. I thought you guys were shit hot on "institutional capture"? Surely you know what Tufton Street have done to the Government??

It really does look like that's what you said. The law as it stands does not protect women. You said you're happy with that.

You're insulting mine.

Please explain how you are happy with the law as it stands, which were your own words ,does not mean that you think that the right of males to be in single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women of vulnerable minority women and sexual abuse survivors?

I mean it's fine to believe that. Just own it.

Once again, that wasn’t the post @lifeturnsonadime made up shit about. Ffs.

Then I'm finding you hard to follow. I don't think paraphrasing always does posters justice so much as I find the view you expressed in that post abhorrent, I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt re other posts. so what has she made up?

Who is proposing a change to "the law as it stands" to make it harder?
If noone is, then it is totally irrelevant to how anyone votes and not worth your time doing these completely fake and transparent "gotchas".

Noones votes are "harming women" because noone is proposing to make it easier for males to be in womens spaces than the conservatives already have.

Now as fun as this is, I'm going to bed

How very generous of you. It’s right there at 23.52.

apparently 0.5% but who really knows because we've long since abandoned good research. https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/08/census-records-trans-population-in-england-and-wales-but-accuracy-is-doubted?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17078688757350&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsociety%2F2023%2Fnov%2F08%2Fcensus-records-trans-population-in-england-and-wales-but-accuracy-is-doubted

so about 30,000 people in the uk. 1 in every 200. but rapidly growing. It would be unlikely for people not to have met a TW with numbers like that. Also to be clear, I think it's revolting to reduce damage TW do to seeing a male washing his hands in toilets. That's completely dismissive of the women assaulted and excluded by TW.

lifeturnsonadime · Yesterday 21:59

BIossomtoes · Yesterday 21:55

I’m getting so sick of these constant references to women want this, women are saying that, this harms women, women care about that. Women aren’t an homogeneous mass that shares a single mind. Some of us don’t share these views because our concerns about the condition of women is much wider than a single issue. It would be really nice if some posters would stop pretending they speak for all of us.

So you also believe the wishes of males to be in women's single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces?

That's great. At least you own it. Edited

This was it.

I took 'some of us don't share these views' as meaning that Blossoms meant she believes the wishes of males to be in women's spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces.

The fact that she has later gone on to say she's happy with the law as it stands makes me rather think I had the correct interpretation the first time.

That's the shit I make up , apparently.

All I see is you denying something. Not explaining why that reasonable understanding of what you said was not what you meant. It doesn't look like making things up.

Of course it's not. It is quite appropriate to expect the Labour Party to oppose bad laws!

Head banging emoji right back at you.

Once the Labour Party have the mandate it's harder to get them to agree to change the laws. They will say no one was bothered about it enough to raise it pre-election.

Right I'm also off to bed.

Lion - you're clearly pretty animated on the issue of trans women and men in spaces not aligned to their biological sex.

What would you like the Conservative party to do? To criminalise trans people for using single sex spaces not aligned to their biological sex?

How do you think this would work in reality - how would it be policed?

Because trans people are a very, very, very tiny group of people (obviously not tiny group in your mind). Really struggling to see how this would work, and how it would improve the safety of women in any meaningful way, given that trans women make up 0.3% of the population, and only a minuscule fraction of that 0.3% are predatory.

I call out the government. The people with the power to affect change. I can't be arsed wasting my time with the losers/also-rans (no offence to supporters of Labour, Lib Dems etc) who have no power. I am focused on change.

Earlier you said you recognised me from other threads, if you did, you'd know I'm in NI. I am not aligned to any of your parties.

You are showing your Tory tribalism by accusing everyone who rightly oppose them on the grounds of women's rights as Labour supporters. Most people didn't vote Tory in the last GE. Many more will not vote Tory in the next GE. They are not all Labour supporters. They are not being tribal. They are the diverse majority of UK citizens.

And they don't need their posts translated into made up shite that you've made up because you can't accept the fact that the Tory government have fucked things for women in the UK, they're not going to make things better and we see that.

Are we back at the 'let's decriminalise everything which is hard to police' and 'because most TW aren't predatory, let's let them into the ladies even though actually most males aren't predatory and actually TW are as predatory as other males' nonsense. Good god. I wish I knew how to post one of those patronising arrogant head banging gifs.

"So you also believe the wishes of males to be in women's single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces?"

By 'males' you're referring to the 0.3% of the population that's trans women?

I know it's hard for you to acknowledge the existence of transgender people, but it would make this conversation so much less confusing if you'd just acknowledge that this is the group you're referring to..

That's not in the least difficult to acknowledge. Yes, those males.coa they're the ones wanting to invade women's spaces (except the few TW who accept that they're not women).

Ok, so go ahead - how do you suggest this be policed?

There are so few trans people in this country that most people have never knowingly shared any sort of space with one, let alone a single sex space.

There are already laws in place to prosecute people who assault others. You're arguing for a law to be bought in to prosecute people who are just minding their own business and not hurting or interfering with anyone, but are just in a single sex space that doesn't align with their biological sex.

If you think it's possible to police this say how it would work?

Stopping women who look masculine and asking for proof they're not trans?

Who do you expect to do this? Other people using a toilet?

"That's not in the least difficult to acknowledge. Yes, those males.coathey're the ones wanting to invade women's spaces (except the few TW who accept that they're not women)."

By 'males who want to invade women's spaces' - you mean 'trans women who want to use women's spaces'.

By the way - the way you use language when you're discussing this issue is very similar to those people who refer to asylum seekers as 'illegals' and 'men of fighting age' who want to 'invade our shores'. You just can't help it.

For the millionth time I'm not a tory voter, a tory bot a shill, or whatever anyone else is desperate for me to be.

I'm a woman who understands that once a party has the mandate it's hard to tell them that you disagree with their stated position on a subject like this.

When Labour get into power and their intentions are crystal clear because they don't undo the damage on this issue. People will ask 'but where were the feminists'?

Well we were right here but you called us names, accused us of being secret Tories and generally refused to listen.

I have shown on this thread independent legal opinion on the weakness of the proposed Labour position. The advice note doesn't mention the Labour Party but it does mention Badenoch's plan's to amend the Equality Act. If posters like Adam thought this source was biased or inaccurate they would have said so.

For fear of sounding like a cracked record. My crime on this thread is to ask Labour, as the opposition party , to do their job and oppose the government position on this.

I've upset some people because I've made assumptions about their motives but they are no worse than any that others have made about mine.

I stand by my posts on this.

I won't post on this thread again but hope that someone has read this and thought, I'll email my prospective candidate and tell them I would like women's single sex spaces to be protected properly in law if Labour get into power.

That's not hard to do. It won't lose Labour the election but they won't be able to later say that women are not interested in this when it comes to them being in government which seems to be the reason they are currently giving for failing to address legitimate concerns.

Here is the legal advice I have referred to. It's all worth a read if you've got time but paragraph 15 is the key one if you are short on time.

https://www.blackstonechambers.com/documents/Transgender_Issues_in_the_Law_-_2023_in_Review.pdf