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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

1000 replies

Lion400 · 12/02/2024 22:36

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
EasternStandard · 13/02/2024 23:13

Ha it was that last one that did it. Made me feel a bit ill

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:17

Hmm. It's the torygraph, and even they say "His comments have led to speculation that misgendering a person could lead to a criminal conviction."

Also it's based on a report by the Institute of economic affairs. They are a right wing think tank linked to Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng. Not entirely credible.

Speculation by a right wing think tank is not fact. You are believing a Tory led conspiracy theory.

Justifiedcheese · 13/02/2024 23:20

Badger75 · 12/02/2024 23:00

Care about women’s rights but want to vote for a party that didn’t let misogyny become a hate crime. A party that has increased the cost of living which impacts women more at home and in the labour market. A party that has made childcare costs increase which affects who? Oh yeah mostly women.

What about the party that refused to make menopause a protected characteristic in the equality act? Or a party that has consistently voted against abortion rights.

Just say you don’t like trans people instead of saying you’re voting for a party because you care about women’s rights.

This. They'll pretend that's not what it's about, but of course it is. Wreck the country for the sake of sticking it to 0.5% of the population.

Senseless.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:21

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:04

They'll know this because nothing will improve even under Labour. If they raise it they could be guilty of a hate crime.
Now you are just making things up.

If they make misgendering a hate crime, which has been floated by Labour, how is a woman supposed to explain that a male is in a woman's single sex space without breaking the law?

Note the use of the word could.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12434981/Free-speech-attack-trans-rights-activists-attempting-shut-debate-stronger-hate-crime-laws-lead-prosecutions-misgendering-report-warns.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Sorry for the Daily Mail link, no doubt I'll be accused of being a right wing, fascist blah blah.

But nothing is being made up by me.

Free speech is under attack from trans rights activists, report warns

The report by the Institute of Economic Affairs warns hate crime laws could be strengthened further under a Labour government, leading to prosecutions for misgendering.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12434981/Free-speech-attack-trans-rights-activists-attempting-shut-debate-stronger-hate-crime-laws-lead-prosecutions-misgendering-report-warns.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 23:21

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:04

Ha ha ha ha ha

I didn't put words into your mouths I just translated it.

Good night.

We're all typing in English so no need for any translating here. What you are doing is making shit up and attributing it to other posters. How come you're doing that @lifeturnsonadime?

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:23

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:21

If they make misgendering a hate crime, which has been floated by Labour, how is a woman supposed to explain that a male is in a woman's single sex space without breaking the law?

Note the use of the word could.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12434981/Free-speech-attack-trans-rights-activists-attempting-shut-debate-stronger-hate-crime-laws-lead-prosecutions-misgendering-report-warns.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Sorry for the Daily Mail link, no doubt I'll be accused of being a right wing, fascist blah blah.

But nothing is being made up by me.

That article is based in the same report from the right wing think tank as theTorygraph one.
Labour are not planning to make misgendering a hate crime.

literalviolence · 13/02/2024 23:23

@Adam it's interesting how much you believe other people belive conspiracy theories whilst assuming that everything you believe is fact. That said, if Kier wanted to state that TW are not biological women, Gc beliefs e.g. that people can't change sex will never be hate speech, and then apologise to Rosie, he could persuade some people he's not the massive misogynistic dick he's currently presenting as. But agai, he's choosing not to. Why?

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:26

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 23:21

We're all typing in English so no need for any translating here. What you are doing is making shit up and attributing it to other posters. How come you're doing that @lifeturnsonadime?

Making up shit?

What I was laughing at was being accused of being male. I'll add it to the list of personal insults. All for wanting women's single sex spaces to be protected and for wanting Labour to do better by vulnerable women on this issue.

It's amazing really. The insults I keep getting for wanting Labour to do better on this.

But I guess it's easier to insult me than to admit that Labour is weak on this issue or to accept that you don't care that much about vulnerable women being harmed by this.

ToWhitToWhoo · 13/02/2024 23:27

Most violations of women's rights don't involve a failure to 'know what a woman is' and to give particular protections to women. They involve (men, generally) being all too aware of what a woman is, and excluding women from the rights given to men.

What you are talking about is really women's safeguarding rather than women's rights. Now, women's safeguarding IS important- no denial there. But it shouldn't be used as an excuse for denying us our rights to equality with men, and to send us back to the kitchen, and to the role of submissive wives. And people, from the Trumpsters, to Orban's supporters of 'illiberal Christian democracy' to, at the extreme, the Taliban, are seriously threatening the rights of women (and gays and ethnic minorities and dissidents). Not because they are unsure what a woman is, but because they're all too sure what a woman is, and want us put in and kept in our place.

I don't think most British Tories do have these views; but I do think that the right wing culture warriors pose a real danger to society; and that safeguarding concerns, important as they are, should not let us sleepwalk into allowing ourselves to be sent back into pre-1970s 'conventional' women's roles, and to be deprived of hard-won social, reproductive, and economic rights. Even as regards safeguarding- let's not forget that there was no legal concept of marital rape in the UK until the 90s.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:28

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:23

That article is based in the same report from the right wing think tank as theTorygraph one.
Labour are not planning to make misgendering a hate crime.

How do you know? You their spokesman now Adam?

You can't possibly know that.

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:31

I don't think my opinions are "facts". That would be stupid and narcissistic. I'm very careful to say when I'm giving an opinion, and to link facts.

Why on earth should Starmer spend his time stating what he doesn't think? What a weird suggestion.

"Today, I'm giving a speech on why I don't think the world is flat and why I don't think that dinosaurs were put in the ground by scientists as a hoax.

Tomorrow I'm going to cover why I don't think the government are attempting mind control through covid vaccines, and why my government has decided to put in place an illuminati screening programme, even though we don't believe there are any illuminati.

Eventually I may cover my actual policy, but not until I've reassured the general public that red T shirts will no longer be sold in shops, so as the red T shirt government control agents won't be able to blend in any more".

Ridiculous idea 😂

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 23:32

Yes you're making shit up @lifeturnsonadime. You've done it repeatedly on this thread and been corrected on it. When it's pointed out to you you dismiss it and accuse people of not wanting to protect women and tribalism which is nonsense.

Out of interest though, when you said earlier that my tribalism was showing, what tribe were you imagining for me?

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:32

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:28

How do you know? You their spokesman now Adam?

You can't possibly know that.

Because it would be ridiculous. But you are right. I don't know. I also don't know about their potential planned illuminati screening programme.

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:34

ToWhitToWhoo · 13/02/2024 23:27

Most violations of women's rights don't involve a failure to 'know what a woman is' and to give particular protections to women. They involve (men, generally) being all too aware of what a woman is, and excluding women from the rights given to men.

What you are talking about is really women's safeguarding rather than women's rights. Now, women's safeguarding IS important- no denial there. But it shouldn't be used as an excuse for denying us our rights to equality with men, and to send us back to the kitchen, and to the role of submissive wives. And people, from the Trumpsters, to Orban's supporters of 'illiberal Christian democracy' to, at the extreme, the Taliban, are seriously threatening the rights of women (and gays and ethnic minorities and dissidents). Not because they are unsure what a woman is, but because they're all too sure what a woman is, and want us put in and kept in our place.

I don't think most British Tories do have these views; but I do think that the right wing culture warriors pose a real danger to society; and that safeguarding concerns, important as they are, should not let us sleepwalk into allowing ourselves to be sent back into pre-1970s 'conventional' women's roles, and to be deprived of hard-won social, reproductive, and economic rights. Even as regards safeguarding- let's not forget that there was no legal concept of marital rape in the UK until the 90s.

Very well said 👏

Flamme · 13/02/2024 23:36

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:28

How do you know? You their spokesman now Adam?

You can't possibly know that.

This is ludicrous. You are the one who says Labour is going to do this. It's up to you to produce actual evidence that that is their plan. Otherwise stop wasting everyone's time.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:41

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 23:32

Yes you're making shit up @lifeturnsonadime. You've done it repeatedly on this thread and been corrected on it. When it's pointed out to you you dismiss it and accuse people of not wanting to protect women and tribalism which is nonsense.

Out of interest though, when you said earlier that my tribalism was showing, what tribe were you imagining for me?

Please specify the 'shit I've made up' , if you are going to fling accusations at me I at least need to understand what you are accusing me of.

By Tribal I meant so aligned to the Labour Party that you cannot see that their position on this will harm vulnerable women. All you can see is 'not tory'.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 23:45

And there you go again, putting words in other people's mouths
Just can't help it 😁

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 23:46

Please specify the 'shit I've made up'

You did it with one of my posts earlier.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 23:47

Please specify the 'shit I've made up
Lol
They have
Repeatedly.
You can't even be taken seriously at this point anymore, surely

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 23:47

Cross posted

literalviolence · 13/02/2024 23:48

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:31

I don't think my opinions are "facts". That would be stupid and narcissistic. I'm very careful to say when I'm giving an opinion, and to link facts.

Why on earth should Starmer spend his time stating what he doesn't think? What a weird suggestion.

"Today, I'm giving a speech on why I don't think the world is flat and why I don't think that dinosaurs were put in the ground by scientists as a hoax.

Tomorrow I'm going to cover why I don't think the government are attempting mind control through covid vaccines, and why my government has decided to put in place an illuminati screening programme, even though we don't believe there are any illuminati.

Eventually I may cover my actual policy, but not until I've reassured the general public that red T shirts will no longer be sold in shops, so as the red T shirt government control agents won't be able to blend in any more".

Ridiculous idea 😂

As regards women's rights, he's already been ridiculous when he said womenncan have penises. So in this regard he does need to be clear what he doesn't think. It's a situation of his own making when he veered into unscientific, anti women ideology.

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:49

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 21:59

So you also believe the wishes of males to be in women's single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces?

That's great. At least you own it.

Edited

I mean this is what I would call "making shit up"

blossom said nothing of the sort (as you can see from the quotes). You did the same to falafel and to me. And you felt the need to "translate" Claudines post to something she didn't say.

You aren't helping yourself by doing this.

If you think posters are "flinging accusations" then report it.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:49

Flamme · 13/02/2024 23:36

This is ludicrous. You are the one who says Labour is going to do this. It's up to you to produce actual evidence that that is their plan. Otherwise stop wasting everyone's time.

Adam is saying it's not true on the basis that she believes that the Independent Economic Forum, which has led to wide media reporting of this, is biased.

I am asking why Adam believes that Labour will not do this on the basis that she doesn't believe the this source and newspapers reports. Given that Labour will be aware of this report and have not denied it's content or the other media reports I cannot see how anyone can say that it is categorically untrue unless they have strong links to Labour.

This is not ludicrous it's just that there is nothing that would make me believe that a random poster on Mumsnet is a better source on this than the Independent Economic Forum.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 23:51

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 23:49

I mean this is what I would call "making shit up"

blossom said nothing of the sort (as you can see from the quotes). You did the same to falafel and to me. And you felt the need to "translate" Claudines post to something she didn't say.

You aren't helping yourself by doing this.

If you think posters are "flinging accusations" then report it.

Well when they then went on to say they will be as happy as pig in muck if Labour get in and are happy with the current laws, they must mean that?

The current laws do put the wishes of males above the needs of vulnerable women : S

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 23:52

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 21:59

So you also believe the wishes of males to be in women's single sex spaces is more important than the safety and dignity of women who need single sex spaces?

That's great. At least you own it.

Edited

Here we go. Made up shit @lifeturnsonadime.

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