To ask what the appeal is for Taylor Swift?

[lingo1234]

Maybe it's just me, but I find her music really average and I don't think she's anything special.

The Chief's Super Bowl win seems overshadowed by her and I don't understand why. I watch a lot of sports and I don't recall a team's final win ever being mostly about one of the players' spouse/partner.

AIBU to just not understand the appeal?

No it really doesn’t answer the question @Yaddayaddayadda12345, all it proves is you are making unfounded asssertions that she is a “selective feminist” but are unable to back up what you say. Otherwise why won’t you answer the perfectly reasonable question.

@NashvilleQueen has already asked you, and I will ask again - you say TS is a selective feminist. Please tell us what she needs to do in you estimable opinion to become a fully formed feminist. Thank you.

We need to move on from the 'selective feminist' because at the end of the day, I bet most of us are, unknowingly or otherwise.

It’s more the fact that people on this thread - yadda being an excellent example - are so keen to cut TS down and fling all sorts of nonsense at her without any basis. So I’d like to hear one of them back up their criticism for a change rather than sling mud because it makes them feel happy and then slink away… “selective feminist” is meaningless claptrap because they just want to have a dig.

I stated she is a selective feminist but I didn't state she needed to become any other sort of feminist, at any point.
Someone asked me how she could become another sort of feminist, and I clarified that she didn't need to become any other sort of feminist, but that she really shouldn't be promoting herself as a feminist role model, because she isn't (she is a talented musician).
If anyone doesn't understand this then I am not sure how much simpler to make it.

Please tel us how she is a selective feminist and what is the difference from a fully formed feminist. You’re right, I don’t understand your argument because you haven’t made one.

I am not 'keen to cut her down', and will happily applaud her for what she does well. I also feel that her PR machine has created a certain persona to further enhance her likeability. As already stated, blandly calling any criticism of her whatsoever 'nonsense' is the issue. Love her music? Great? Love a made up persona? Not so great.

OK, sure.

Oh I agree, the point is that most of the rest of us don't have PR teams marketing us as feminist role models. We can all do better.

It is. I’m not a fan, but enjoy her music, especially the albums she re-released but don’t really see this whole “it coming out of nowhere” and what is her appeal nonsense

I’ll likely get dragged for this but I noticed a gradual uptick about her in the media after she broke up with her boyfriend of six years and people joking about looking forward to a new album. Then she re-released her old albums which is something other artists have done in the past, but I think the reason she re-released them was she finally achieved control of her masters which had been owned by the previous record company that she signed to at 15. By re-releasing these albums she exposed her older music to a newer generation who only knew of her more recent stuff. Add in another rumoured bf whose reputation wasn’t great, her eras tour, and a new bf who has just won a third Super Bowl ring (having won his second last year), here we are and like most things it will die down and someone will post another thread moaning about someone else.

Clearly you don't have an example.

Instead you're just throwing meaningless phrases at the woman without thought or proper foundation. 'Fan base' 'PR machine' 'selective feminist'.

I read on the BBC the other day that over 50% of Americans describe themselves as TS fans. They're not all teen girls and that level of popularity after 18 years in the spotlight isn't just the result of good PR.

Exactly, no examples to back up the insults even when directly challenged, just lots of prevarication and distraction. Plus ca change 🙄.

Where is she promoting herself as a selective feminist.

these are just meaningless insults. Someone even accused her of being attention seeking simply by going to the superbowl.

whats wrong with people. See a successful woman and want to attack her, drag her down. Just why? Does it make them feel better about their own lives?

no one is perfect, no one tried to portray themselves as having all their shit together, we are all human, when your life is at such a state that you feel the need to attack women who are successful then it’s time to focus on your own shit.

I'm interested to hear this because I'm not clear on how she's a secretive feminist. Or if that even is such a thing.

But have they? Genuinely. For years and years, Taylor Swift has avoided making any political or feminist commentary because she was heavily advised not to. It's only in the past few years that she's started speaking out on things, and I think that's come from her, but obviously, she's not going to comment on everything. I imagine she focuses on the things that are most important to her. I mean, I'd be the same.

On the other thread she's just been slagged off for not talking about Palestine.

I mean it's hilarious.

"Of course she cannot be everything to everyone, however she has somehow morphed into a role model for feminism as a concept."

What the hell is that even supposed to mean?! She's not Gloria Steinem. She was told by her team for years not to say anything about anything because of what happened to the Dixie Chicks

Shes America’s sweetheart, the epitome of success presented in a white, attractive blonde package with the perfect amount of bland but saccharine sweetness to appeal to several large demographics (kids, young women who idolise celebrities and ‘older’ women who love easy to listen to pop music). She doesn’t speak on any current affairs or important issues, her brand of feminism appeals to those previously mentioned demographics and she doesn’t cause any ‘trouble’ (except for her exciting love life which is carefully curated for our viewing pleasure). She has a very well oiled PR machine but it’s done in a way that makes her seem accessible, when it’s actually the opposite. Very clever strategy

Fuck me people are mental.

People are RIDICULOUS.

I don't get the "she can't be a feminist role model unless she is actively engaging and promoting every single facet of feminism". That's such bollocks. I am a feminist but 1. I simply can't engage with every feminist issue and 2. sometimes my feminism looks different to someone else's feminism.

This weird black/white thinking is why I think we have such huge issues with politics these days - for some reason there's this view that if you support a political party or a political leader that person must 100% have the same views as you on EVERYTHING. And it's just not practical. I married a man who I chose in part because we broadly have similar political, moral, ethical views... and we STILL don't agree on every single thing.

And the point is that of course TS isn't this perfect feminist, perfect role model, perfect artist etc. But overall she's pretty good and for some reason she takes a lot more heat than any man in a similar position.

@GingerIsBest I do get what you are saying. I'm a left of centre voter- but I'm not mega 'woke' and I would say I'm a feminist but certainly don't subscribe to the all men are evil, all women are saints kind of mentality either.

"I'm a feminist" - Erm, you haven't personally advocated for every group of women so you're only a selective feminist, actually. Bad woman.

"Ok, I'm not a feminist" - Wow, talk about throwing women under the bus. Guess you don't believe any of those women-empowering lyrics. Bad woman.

Says nothing - Oh my god, why can't you use your immense platform and privilege to speak up for women? Bad woman.

Yes, really. For example:

• Super Bowl 2024 Score: Final Box Score and Analysis from 49ers vs. Chiefs | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report
• Who won the Super Bowl 2024? Result, MVP and key stats | Radio Times
• Super Bowl final score: Patrick Mahomes delivers magic to lead Chiefs to another championship - SBNation.com

The more sports-focused media have plenty of articles discussing the sport without mentioning which celebs were in the crowd. As I said, it's probably to be expected that stories in the general media include more of the extraneous details they think will be of interest to people who don't follow the NFL.

That said, the main story in the Guardian doesn't mention Taylor Swift (though she is in a photo of Travis Kelce celebrating after the match): Super Bowl 2024: Chiefs stun 49ers in overtime for second straight NFL title | Super Bowl | The Guardian

I have no idea why she's popular and neither have my young adult dds.

I mean come on. You have 'no idea' why she's popular?
Really? Even if you don't like her or her music, you really can't fathom why lots of people do?

OK then.