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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For reacting to people who treat me poorly..assaulted at the doctors surgery

537 replies

Namechangey23 · 09/02/2024 11:49

I suspect the answer is yes IABU and normal people don't do this! Please help me understand why I am like this and what I can do to fix it.

This is a typical example of a situation I have got myself into by reacting and allowing myself to be provoked. I was taking my DS (1 yr) for vaccinations and parked neatly in one of many available spaces at my local surgery. Just as I was trying to get him out of his car seat with the door open, I see out of the corner of my eye this guy in his 70s or beyond starts reversing into the space I am standing in with the door open. Note that there are various other spaces even side by side which he could have gone into but no, he chose the one I was standing in with DS half out of his car seat. I waved and shouted and he stopped....then he carried on again so I screamed and shouted at him preparing to smack the back end of his car as I thought he somehow still hasn't seen me and there wasn't room for me to stand out the way. Finally he then moves off, parks opposite and walks off inside without a word.

This is where I then made a poor decision. I had to stand next to him whilst logging into their system. I was so angry and shocked at what just happened that I decided he wasn't going to get away with it, so I said to him.. you do realise you just almost ran us over...I was expecting he might apologise. This then started off an argument in front of the whole waiting room. I asked him why he chose to park in the only space I was standing in when there were 6 other spaces available and he just said 'it was a space wasn't it' and he said 'you shouldn't have such a big car" I said I can have what car I like (honestly it's not big just a very basic standard budget SUV, not some enormous tank!) And I was parked responsibly in the space, it is customary to need the door open when getting a child out and unfortunately they don't have child spaces with more room and I didn't want to park in the disabled spacs as that's not for me! I'm afraid he pissed me off even more with his comment about my car so I said something I wasn't proud of along the lines of "should have gone to Specsavers because I'm not sure how you didn't see me? " Anyway of course it escalated, the receptionist tried to intervene to calm us down, and then he pushed all three of us, her most as she was inbetween him and me still holding DS. I feel totally devastated because she ended up bearing the brunt of what was obviously meant for me. Also mortified this was in front of everybody, although they were very kind. But also because I should have left it well alone as I had my son in my arms, why oh why didn't I keep my mouth firmly shut?! A miss (even a near miss!) Is as good as a mile as they say. What is wrong with me, why do I put myself and others at risk just to be right? It's like the sense of injustice takes over and fight wins over flight even when it makes common sense not to poke the hornets nest.

It's happened before. I asked someone outside my house which fronts onto a footpath to pick up their dog mess and got verbally abused and I think there are other incidents I can't remember now. Incidently I always end up a shaking blubbing emotional wreck after such incidents so why do I do it??! In my head I think I'm sticking up for myself. But it usually ends up worse for me and I feel like in taking these risks, one day I could end up with myself in serious trouble or dead doing it. How can I stop myself in future when it's almost reflexive! I know I need to control myself. Incidently my husband is the complete opposite extreme and a pacifist. He avoids conflict like the plague and never gets himself in any situations like this as a result. If there is a problem with a bill or contractor I have to deal with it. Is there a middle ground?!
Incidently my DS got his vaccines (all 4!) but it wasn't at all the calm experience I was hoping for...

OP posts:
saraclara · 09/02/2024 16:07

Consider how you would react if you made a mistake and someone approached you all guns blazing, you’d probably give the same back, not humbly apologise - by this point your ‘mistake’ will be irrelevant and your now defending yourself against an arsehole.

That's perfectly put.

Having your say about something that's resolved is always going to be inflammatory. You need to find another way of bringing your adrenalin down.

LadyKenya · 09/02/2024 16:09

YuleDragon · 09/02/2024 16:04

If i'd nearly run someone over i'd be apologising, not walking off, getting defensive when pulled up and then assaulting the woman i'd already nearly just injured on the car park.

That is you. Quite clearly you don't seem to understand that not everybody reacts the same way.

Namechangey23 · 09/02/2024 16:10

Gall10 · 09/02/2024 12:38

What’s his age got to do with this?
mumsnet loves to have a go at the oldies…especially if they are in-laws!

Oh come on, I have utmost respect for older people including my grandparents still going strong in their 90s who survived being evacuated through a world war and loss of parents and close family to bring up my own parents. I purely mention it because there is probably a higher chance he could have been partially sighted due to his age. But also because old enough to know better than to push surgery staff let alone me, assuming not impaired by illness. I know he was there with a woman who's appt it was, not his. Not having a go at oldies as you put it'. Unless you think his behaviour was entirely acceptable (not condoning my own).

OP posts:
rwalker · 09/02/2024 16:12

sound like you enjoy conflict and confrontation

people generally respond in the same manner there approached in

as you recognise there are better ways of dealing with situations you just need to action it

Nanny0gg · 09/02/2024 16:13

Octavia64 · 09/02/2024 12:40

Yes there is a middle ground.

You know that.

It sounds like you are thinking that whenever anyone does something that has a negative impact on you that they are doing it out of malice.

Usually this is not the case, and usually it's either that they are antisocial and do it all the time (so never clear their dogs mess up) or they've simply made a mistake.

I make mistakes all the time. I expect you do as well.

In general, if you go up to people you don't know and try to "call them out" on their mistakes/ the behaviour you don't like then they are going to respond with anger.

So imagine the dog walking guy is thinking "shit, I left the dog poo bags at home today I can't believe I forgot them again! I hope the dog doesn't poo somewhere too bad and my mistake doesn't get noticed".

You then come out and talk to him. That conversation is not going to go well.

Alternatives: take out a plastic bag - and say "hi I'm sorry but your dog has messed and I saw you've not cleaned it up, I guess you've forgotten your bags, would you mind doing it?"

But honestly the likelihood is that he's not going to respond well.

So you are essentially picking fights with people. Ask yourself - why am I angry? What am I really angry about?

Realistically if you keep picking fights with people at some point you will get seriously emotionally or physically hurt. People do not like being called out on their behaviour.

~Why is it 'picking a fight'?

The OP was right to call out the dog poo man - it's disgusting and dog owners need to be more responsible

And the car driver was firmly in the wrong too.

Why are we always advised to 'let it go' just in case the other person is an arse?

Shefliesonherownwings · 09/02/2024 16:14

I don’t have much to add except I react exactly the same as you OP and although it gets me nowhere and I usually end up feeling worse afterwards, I can’t help it. I seem to have such a strong hatred towards injustice or perceived injustice that it takes over me and I have to say something. I recently had a go at an elderly woman who queue jumped me in M&S and it wasn’t pretty. I have this thing about not letting people get away with anything. Probably because I’ve been walked over a lot and I’ve had enough of it. That doesn’t really help but you’re not alone OP.

Nanny0gg · 09/02/2024 16:15

Namechangey23 · 09/02/2024 16:10

Oh come on, I have utmost respect for older people including my grandparents still going strong in their 90s who survived being evacuated through a world war and loss of parents and close family to bring up my own parents. I purely mention it because there is probably a higher chance he could have been partially sighted due to his age. But also because old enough to know better than to push surgery staff let alone me, assuming not impaired by illness. I know he was there with a woman who's appt it was, not his. Not having a go at oldies as you put it'. Unless you think his behaviour was entirely acceptable (not condoning my own).

I'm an 'older person'

I don't think you were wrong.

If his eyesight/driving is that bad he shouldn't be behind the wheel

momonpurpose · 09/02/2024 16:15

Yes the man was unreasonable and violence is inexcusable But there is no way for op to know if the person (could also be a woman btw) is going to react. Possibly with violence. OP can't control another person but she can stop a behavior that can put herself and her child in danger. Today a push tomorrow much worse. That's really not worth the risk to "stand up for yourself" It's an ugly world with more violence then ever.

Ohlookwhoitis · 09/02/2024 16:16

"For what it's worth I absolutely do not condone male violence"

Oh but you do. What did the receptionist do to 'deserve' being pushed? She didn't argue with him.

Namechangey23 · 09/02/2024 16:16

Abitofalark · 09/02/2024 14:22

The problem here is that you react, get into a row, don't withdraw when it might be diplomatic or self protective to do so and then blame yourself and feel awful. I can be like that so I know that I have to rein it in and I do, most of the time. I won't get involved in arguments such as in supermarkets - or as in your case a doctor's surgery, so will let it go rather than escalate or have the last word. I do the same online, even if someone is snarky or condescending and merits a retort. But I'll make an exception for dogs fouling.

It's personality largely isn't it - as you say, your husband is completely different. While you are being introspective and questioning yourself you might like to try one of those tests for insight into your personality and what makes you tick - see for instance, https://www.16personalities.com/ But whatever a test may tell you, you still need to be aware of your own pitfalls and practise lowering the temperature in situations to protect yourself from getting embroiled and ending up in a bad state.

Yes that's exactly what happens ..I've always come out as an INFP (The Healer ironically!!) on that personalities test god help me.. my husband is the INTP logician so that probably tells you everything about our different approaches. He is always more rational.

OP posts:
PeggySooo · 09/02/2024 16:21

I think you should have let it go after the car park. Obviously you lost control of yourself and the fact that you stood there with presumably enough time to talk yourself down, you didn't, which suggests your emotions are something you need to work on.

sunstreaming · 09/02/2024 16:27

These replies say more about the pre-conceptions of the people writing them, than about the facts of this case. The sort of car OP was driving is irrelevant and doesn't excuse the man's behaviour. We have a right to have an opinion about SUVs (I'm not keen on them) but that doesn't mean we can behave badly/unfairly/dangerously towards people who do drive them. We are not judge, jury and executioner!

It's worth looking at the facts: whatever the behaviour of Op in the surgery,which party was the more injured? The OP's safety and that of her child was put at risk by this man's behaviour,either accidentally or on purpose. She was therefore in a state of high arousal. It would have been better to react more assertively, but in the end, HE was only threatened by her words whereas OP and he child were put at material risk.

Here is what I think about someof the replies:

he was obviously not intending to run you over - irrelevant as bad things can happen even when people don't intend harm. If you tread on my toe, it hurts just as much whether it was accidental or on purpose.

I just tut and get on with my day and maybe tell my OH about it later -goes nowhere towards improving general behaviour and making the world a safer place. If bad behaviour is accepted then it becomes acceptable. And tutting to your OH, or making passive-aggressive posts on local social media, e.g. 'to the person who....' actually achieves nothing at all.

It is pretty obvious that he realised what happened given that you were screaming and shouting at him in the car park and that he drove off

But he only drove off after the second time you tried to alert him, so it does look as if he was deliberately ignoring you the first time,which is very scary and dangerous and unlawful.

He made a simple mistake in the car park. Nothing happened, Not so – he made a mistake, you alerted him to it and he did it again. No wonder you were scared.

But it is more likely that he just didn't check before reversing, and it was a mistake, or carelessness. IF the OP and her child had been injured the male driver would have been in big trouble. The fact that he wasn't intending them harm is irrelevant. Even if 'all' he did wrong was being careless, he was still not driving in a safe manner. In fact OP, by reacting as you did in the car park,you saved yourself and your child from injury and saved him from at least, being banned from driving, but maybe also from a fine and prison sentence. He should be grateful to you.

Maybe he has bad eyesight or bad depth perception so parking next to another car helps him cue it up. Maybe he's had bad health news and isn't feeling quite with it. Whatever is happening to him, he's in charge of a lethal weapon and if his state of mind means he can't use it safely, he needs to be aware of this. As I said before,an injury hurts just as much whatever the reason for it. He would not get away with it in Court if he injured or even killed someonein this sort of situation. And he'd have to live with himself. If he'snot fit to drive,then he shouldn't be driving.

He may have had a lot on his mind and have just assumed the op had seen him so would move out of his way. Indefensible way to act when driving.

if you'd posted this in a German forum, Good point. In many parts of Europe, if there's an incident between a car and a pedestrian, the car driver is automatically at fault.

a stranger who actually hadn't done anything wrong Yes he had! He was driving in a way likely to harm a pedestrian (which she was as out of the car and with her feet on the ground) and a child. Either he didn't realise that they were in his way,which is indefensible, or he didn't care and wanted to force them out of his way. Totally indefensible.

OP you were understandably frightened by this man's behaviour and did your best to alert him to what was happening – which he initially ignored. I can see that putting your child back in the car where he would then be unrestrained is something you didn't want to do. And also that even if you'd been able to do this in the time and then slam the door shut,your child would have been frightened –you could have trapped your or your child's fingers. And where were you supposed to go? Just flattening yourself against your car wouldn't have necessarily been safe and would also have been frightening. And could have resulted in him actually harming you -a much worse outcome for everyone.

Unfortunately, you put him into a defensive mode when you confronted him. A better thing to do in these circumstances, I think , is to be assertive, so here is a script.

'When you...describe what they did

I felt...describe how you felt. Maybe leave a pause where he could apologise. Then the rest of the script doesn't need to be used.

I would have preferred it if you...describe what you think they should have done.

It's hard to argue against because you haven't made any assumptions, just stuck to the facts and your feelings. Even the preferred behaviour is your opinion. This script works in many situations and although it feels strange to do and takes practice. But it means you have dealt with the problem, without backing the other person into a corner. Of course, they might still react in an angry way, but that's on them. I'd sooner live in a world were people challenged antisocial and unreasonable behaviour assertively like this, than one where it's handled aggressively or people are too scared to tackle it and poor behaviour becomes the norm.

I hope you feel better now. Maybe write a letter to the surgery,apologising for your part in this incident and thanking the Receptionist for coming to your aid. Good luck and I'm glad neither you not your child were innjured.

saraclara · 09/02/2024 16:30

You wrote the OP acknowledging that you were wrong and that you have a problem @Namechangey23 . But with every update you're making excuses for yourself.

It was fair enough that you reacted at the time by sitting send banging the car. You needed to get his attention and you perceived immediate danger to yourself and your baby.

But confronting him in the surgery was entirely pointless. The very fact that he'd parked elsewhere was enough to tell you that he'd recognised that he'd been wrong. There was absolutely no purpose in you confronting him. It was never going to achieve anything. You were doing it for your own satisfaction and nothing more.

You admitted (initially) that your tone was unpleasant and sarky (which was never going to result in an apology, let's face it). So why are you trying to defend yourself now?

Checken · 09/02/2024 16:32

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

crackofdoom · 09/02/2024 16:34

That's a really good post sunstreaming.

Vivi0 · 09/02/2024 16:34

YuleDragon · 09/02/2024 16:05

I cannot fathom how people are DEFENDING someone who nearly ran the OP and her Child over, TWICE, then physically assaulted them.

People are also pointing out that the OP’s behaviour isn’t okay.

The man is responsible for his own behaviour, but the OP is also responsible for hers.

It’s not okay to shout and scream at strangers, berate them, publically shame and insult them. It doesn’t matter if they did something “wrong”, it doesn’t entitle anyone to verbally abuse anyone else.

I’m not surprised to hear so many others admit to behaving like this, I’ve been on the receiving end of this kind of harassment and abuse and it’s horrible.

Ohlookwhoitis · 09/02/2024 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

Plenty of people on this thread think what he did was ok. Some people are tying themselves in knots trying to defend his behaviour.

Morecatsarebetter · 09/02/2024 16:35

YuleDragon · 09/02/2024 16:04

If i'd nearly run someone over i'd be apologising, not walking off, getting defensive when pulled up and then assaulting the woman i'd already nearly just injured on the car park.

Yep. Entitled doesn’t even begin to cover it. He didn’t “make a mistake”. He deliberately wanted that space and fuck the fact there was a mum in his way trying to get her child out of the car. Pig Ignorant behaviour. Then he showed more of his true colours by pushing the woman in the surgery. Us people pleasers are sick to the back teeth of all this

Cerealkiller4U · 09/02/2024 16:35

I mean. I see why…but I’m almost certain he want backing into the space to piss you off.

if that had of been me I’d of just shut the door and waited…

I once saw a guy beating his girlfriend up and she had blood pouring down her face. She was about 17…he was 6’5 and I had my 1 yr old in my arms. I shouted at him to stop. We were in a packed shopping centre. He came after me and the girlfriend tripped him up so he wasn’t able to catch me. The police got involved because after that it turns out he went and stabbed some 15 ye olds and I often wonder if I somehow made it worse for everyone involved. My mum was in a DV relationships and no one helped that poor girl. But maybe I made it worse for her? No one apart from her tripping him helped me when he came after me with a child in my arms. They thought I’d need to go to court because of what happened and I asked the officer why no one did anything and she said because people carry weapons with them as we found out….

so you can have the best will in the world and still get the shit.

JennyGracexx · 09/02/2024 16:35

sunstreaming · 09/02/2024 16:27

These replies say more about the pre-conceptions of the people writing them, than about the facts of this case. The sort of car OP was driving is irrelevant and doesn't excuse the man's behaviour. We have a right to have an opinion about SUVs (I'm not keen on them) but that doesn't mean we can behave badly/unfairly/dangerously towards people who do drive them. We are not judge, jury and executioner!

It's worth looking at the facts: whatever the behaviour of Op in the surgery,which party was the more injured? The OP's safety and that of her child was put at risk by this man's behaviour,either accidentally or on purpose. She was therefore in a state of high arousal. It would have been better to react more assertively, but in the end, HE was only threatened by her words whereas OP and he child were put at material risk.

Here is what I think about someof the replies:

he was obviously not intending to run you over - irrelevant as bad things can happen even when people don't intend harm. If you tread on my toe, it hurts just as much whether it was accidental or on purpose.

I just tut and get on with my day and maybe tell my OH about it later -goes nowhere towards improving general behaviour and making the world a safer place. If bad behaviour is accepted then it becomes acceptable. And tutting to your OH, or making passive-aggressive posts on local social media, e.g. 'to the person who....' actually achieves nothing at all.

It is pretty obvious that he realised what happened given that you were screaming and shouting at him in the car park and that he drove off

But he only drove off after the second time you tried to alert him, so it does look as if he was deliberately ignoring you the first time,which is very scary and dangerous and unlawful.

He made a simple mistake in the car park. Nothing happened, Not so – he made a mistake, you alerted him to it and he did it again. No wonder you were scared.

But it is more likely that he just didn't check before reversing, and it was a mistake, or carelessness. IF the OP and her child had been injured the male driver would have been in big trouble. The fact that he wasn't intending them harm is irrelevant. Even if 'all' he did wrong was being careless, he was still not driving in a safe manner. In fact OP, by reacting as you did in the car park,you saved yourself and your child from injury and saved him from at least, being banned from driving, but maybe also from a fine and prison sentence. He should be grateful to you.

Maybe he has bad eyesight or bad depth perception so parking next to another car helps him cue it up. Maybe he's had bad health news and isn't feeling quite with it. Whatever is happening to him, he's in charge of a lethal weapon and if his state of mind means he can't use it safely, he needs to be aware of this. As I said before,an injury hurts just as much whatever the reason for it. He would not get away with it in Court if he injured or even killed someonein this sort of situation. And he'd have to live with himself. If he'snot fit to drive,then he shouldn't be driving.

He may have had a lot on his mind and have just assumed the op had seen him so would move out of his way. Indefensible way to act when driving.

if you'd posted this in a German forum, Good point. In many parts of Europe, if there's an incident between a car and a pedestrian, the car driver is automatically at fault.

a stranger who actually hadn't done anything wrong Yes he had! He was driving in a way likely to harm a pedestrian (which she was as out of the car and with her feet on the ground) and a child. Either he didn't realise that they were in his way,which is indefensible, or he didn't care and wanted to force them out of his way. Totally indefensible.

OP you were understandably frightened by this man's behaviour and did your best to alert him to what was happening – which he initially ignored. I can see that putting your child back in the car where he would then be unrestrained is something you didn't want to do. And also that even if you'd been able to do this in the time and then slam the door shut,your child would have been frightened –you could have trapped your or your child's fingers. And where were you supposed to go? Just flattening yourself against your car wouldn't have necessarily been safe and would also have been frightening. And could have resulted in him actually harming you -a much worse outcome for everyone.

Unfortunately, you put him into a defensive mode when you confronted him. A better thing to do in these circumstances, I think , is to be assertive, so here is a script.

'When you...describe what they did

I felt...describe how you felt. Maybe leave a pause where he could apologise. Then the rest of the script doesn't need to be used.

I would have preferred it if you...describe what you think they should have done.

It's hard to argue against because you haven't made any assumptions, just stuck to the facts and your feelings. Even the preferred behaviour is your opinion. This script works in many situations and although it feels strange to do and takes practice. But it means you have dealt with the problem, without backing the other person into a corner. Of course, they might still react in an angry way, but that's on them. I'd sooner live in a world were people challenged antisocial and unreasonable behaviour assertively like this, than one where it's handled aggressively or people are too scared to tackle it and poor behaviour becomes the norm.

I hope you feel better now. Maybe write a letter to the surgery,apologising for your part in this incident and thanking the Receptionist for coming to your aid. Good luck and I'm glad neither you not your child were innjured.

Thoroughly enjoyed reading that 😄

Cerealkiller4U · 09/02/2024 16:37

I now think. Is this the hill I want to die on. Because if I do end up getting stabbed etc….is it worth it?

because it can easily happen…people carry all sorts of things as my story above…

LadyKenya · 09/02/2024 16:41

Ohlookwhoitis · 09/02/2024 16:35

Plenty of people on this thread think what he did was ok. Some people are tying themselves in knots trying to defend his behaviour.

Edited

No, that is not true. Pointing out that the OP made a poor choice to challenge the man, in the surgery, whilst holding her young child, is not the same as saying that what he did was ok. She was in charge of a young child, not him. Her response to situations, needs to be taken into consideration by her.

Morecatsarebetter · 09/02/2024 16:41

I’ve backed down all my life. Now I see that people are getting more and more aggressive and entitled. Me me me. He wanted that space and fuck the fact OP’s car door was open. He wanted that space. I would’ve whacked his car with my hand. Would I have then carried it on in the dr’s reception? Doubtful, but I can see why OP did.

Cerealkiller4U · 09/02/2024 16:42

I’d like to think to myself the nicer you are the more people want to jelp

the more defensive you are the more it is mirrored.

you can argue with nice!!!!! Try it. People give up.

try it. I bet it turns your attitude around

Checken · 09/02/2024 16:43

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request