Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

Thank you for interpreting my post as you wanted to.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator you mean you won't pay for their training ? Vicky at it again, saying things they don't mean. So they can't strike but get nothing in return ? What a deal. Can't understand why they wouldn't take it.

Still can't find that 'thanks' button ?

Please read my posts that have outlined in detail about who pays for training in certain circumstances - its all there. The taxpayer is not expected to fund training of anyone in my judgement where the professional then leaves the NHS within 5 years. Its all in my posts, look them up

Also, the no-strike clause was implemented and trust me, not many more will leave than already were considering this.

Some people would give eye, and teeth to have a job that was almost guaranteed for life

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator and there you show your complete lack of knowledge of the current medical profession. There is NO guarantee of a job. After F2 the ratios of applicants to speciality training are up to 1:10. That's 10 people applying for each job. The other 9 might not have a job. As a doctor. In our underfunded under staffed NHS.
Where are these jobs for life ? Because the GPs being made redundant would like to see them please.

As I know you like facts. The first 3 specialities. One is 27 applicants for each job.

You are showing your lack of knowldge and misunderstood my post. Where else other than most public services is a job almost guaranteed for life?

You won't, but I will try. How many doctors were made redundant (and were not offered alternative workplaces) over the last three years?

Speaking of facts, OP - any sign of that data I asked you for yesterday to back up your statement that Labour wouldn't fund the NHS and that everything they say is BS. Thanks so much.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator it's a very simple Google job. Even the Daily Fail covered the most recent story in Thames Ditton. And locum GPs can no longer get work as replaced by PAs. F2s worried about a job in July. Read. You'll learn stuff.

Doctors can't get jobs as the government won't fund them. It's really v v v v v simple. So they leave and go abroad where they welcomed with lovely pay and conditions.

Thing is, OP - it doesn't matter that we have 10 doctors competing for every job. That isn't happening because we have too many doctors, it's happening because NHS Trusts don't have the funding to employ as many doctors as they actually need. we have a relatively low number of doctors per 1000 of population

And at the same time we have an ageing population with higher health needs. Do a bit of maths and you'll work it out.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-67912753.amp

I can post all of the stories but I'll let you find the facts for yourself.

@mumsneedwine still a lot of lalalalala going on...

OP doesn't like facts that don't suit their narrative and won't provide evidence to back up their own statements. It's a bit sad, really. I'm only here persisting because the Tory narrative of blaming everyone but themselves needs to be challenged wherever it arises.

@pointythings it's so sad. Because this person is one day going to need a doctor. And they'll be none left.

Out of 350 recent graduates at one medical school, 349 had investigated an escape route from medicine. This year I know of 2nd and 3rd years taking STEP.

Well of course Rishi Sunak will blame the doctors for increasing waiting lists. What do you expect? These politicians, especially all the recent bunch, will blame absolutely everyone while taking no responsibility themselves. If Rishi and his team had negotiated with medical staff and others 2 years ago, this situation would have been avoided. If they had stopped using the NHS as a political football decades ago, medical staff wouldn't be leaving. The blame for the current problems rests strongly with Rishi, etc

Incredible!!!!

However, the question that needs to be addressed is reality as many people think about this/that and the other = = So how many actually left??

Just to be a pedant, that rather assumes all doctors and medical systems are equivalent.

I strongly suspect they are not, and that 10 non UK doctors may do the work of 20 UK doctors.

And that in itself is an endemic issue that austerity brings.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator not enough. Is that clear enough for you ? Hence the long waiting times.

But you believe what you like. I'm sure Rishi and Vicky will be hitting that imaginary thanks button. The rest of us can't wait to vote them out.

Absolutely no evidence for the claim that UK medics are half as efficient as non UK medics whatsoever....

@SerendipityJane you're absolutely right. Productivity (I hate that word) is also a factor in the UK because there are staff shortages in the ancillary professions. Everything takes longer if you don't have enough lab staff to process test samples, enough radiologists and technicians to carry out scans, enough nursing staff to carry out observations. It all links together.

Meanwhile, doctors are leaving in increasing numbers (Other sources are available, didn't take a lot of Googling, you should really try it some time, OP!). And yes, there are also new doctors arriving on the scene - but without jobs to go to because the funding isn't there to offer those jobs, that means nothing.

@FixTheBone it isn't a matter of blaming doctors for inefficiency. It's about systemic, built in inefficiency.

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Also - continuing the pedantry - I did not "claim" UK doctors were any less efficient. You made that leap all by yourself.

I was merely questioning how useful pretty picture graphs are when trying to get to the truth of a matter.

Assuming you are interested in the truth. If you aren't then really all you care about is the colours. Presumably blue:good, red:bad ?

You said you 'suspect' that 10 non UK doctors do the work of 20 UK doctors.

Maybe explain yourself a bit more clearly.

Also

Red = good

Blue = a bunch of cunts that have ruined everything.

I still didn't say that.

Try again. Note the use of the conditional "may" in the sentence construction indicating a point of view the author is not asserting, but considering. This merely reinforces the initial word "suspect" which also indicates a possible state of affairs rather than a definitive presentation of fact.

I think I am beginning to see why the UK is so unproductive.

Indeed.

People writing stuff that apparently doesn't actually mean anything for example.

You might assume that.... but the numbers signing up to do degree courses in health are falling, below that of the numbers leaving.

Your answer to this is to impose a no strike agreement and have bonded service for 5 years in return for free tuition.

What i don't understand is why that would stop people leaving? most AHP's who do leave, have worked in the NHS for a number of years in anycase, they gain experience and have greater value to alternative employers.

I'm surprised you haven't yet suggested AHPs sign up for a min 25 years work in the NHS & then lose their registration if they leave after.

@Absolutely45 don't go giving them ideas!