To not vote Labour because of their abhorrent views on the female sex?

[Lion400]

Starmer cannot represent women, he can’t even define us. Questioning a trans person is a hate crime, but misogyny is not. Sorry Labour, you’ve lost my vote. Have they lost anyone else’s??

‘On trans ideology, the vast majority of voters, and certainly a majority of traditional Labour voters from working class backgrounds, tend to cast a sceptical eye on the tenets of an ideological movement that asserts that biological men must be accepted as women – and be offered similar rights and access to women’s spaces and sports as women – simply by asserting their new status’

What happened to the Well Woman drop in clinics? And Sure Start? Which party has run down the NHS, privatised as much profit as it can from it, leaving the remnants to be fought over by those who need it most? Who needs it most ? Women. Thanks Tories we know you have our best interests at heart. It's evident in everything you do

Well said

Yep concur generally

I'd ask you to list the moral failures of Labour at the same time as listing the moral failures of Tories. Because they're both real.

Nobody’s talking about Tory moral failings. The issues with their total disregard for women by cutting the services that mostly benefit them are practical, financial and political.

@literalviolence , no, you don't understand. To those who have nothing, something is better than nothing. In the sum where Tory = minus 0, Labour can = 0. This isn't about moral failures, take those to your religious advisor. It's about policy. Intentional policy. Stop attempting to argue equivalence where there is none.

And again, for the people at the back:

Insulting women, belittling our concerns and telling us we are gullible, is unlikely to persuade us to think or do what you want us to.

This isn't about moral failures, take those to your religious advisor. It's about policy

Exactly

you need to reft because that it exactly what a pp did and what I responded to.

Should have quoted what you were responding to then. I’m not clairvoyant.

E.g. the Labour policy to make it easier for women to pretend to be men and harass those women who stand against that? policies which mean males are locked in women's prison? males in women's wards? Not all women are better off under Labour given their hatred of women.

I did.

Where has anyone said Thanks Tories we know you have our best interests at heart. It's evident in everything you do. Anyone? Please show me anyone in this thread saying any version of that.

Page after page of women saying we don't want to vote Tory but we want Labour to take our concerns seriously, and you just keep coming back with 'oh yeah but the Tories are bastards'.

Yes, I know. My problem is, that Labour are too.

As before; something is better than nothing.

You didn’t.

I find this thought process a bit chilling, the idea that people are in some kind of treatment "queue" with places allocated depending on their "worthiness".

If an person has been approved and referred for treatment, they should be able to get that treatment in a timely way, regardless of whether they belong to a particular group.

I honestly can't see what the argument is here. And what you are implying is a slippery slope towards a tiered healthcare system where politicians get to make a value judgement on whether people are treated or not. Thus opening the door for all kinds of dystopia scenarios that we thought were relegated to history (e.g. forced sterilisation of minority groups; eugenics even).

The thread does have quite a lot of people saying "yay tories" actually
And what do you think is the consequence of encouraging people not to vote Labour (which is exactly what you are doing)?

What 'something' are Labour offering to women? They're already saying it'll take 2 terms to do anything about the economy or the NHS, both issues a lot of posters have said are what makes them wants Labour in power. Labour are banking on trust build by previous incarnations of the party. The current leader is as slippery as any Tory, sitting on every fence he can find, twisting and squirming away from concrete pledges and making vague promises to whoever is currently in front of him.

You might think it's worth risking the loss of what's left of women's rights and child safeguarding, for a promise that maybe we'll have better services in 5-10 years, maybe; to me, that's a really really big gamble.

Do I trust the Tories? No of course not, self serving bastards who wouldn't piss on me if I were on fire. But I can't trust Labour either, and that is for Labour to address, if they care to do so.

I honestly can't see what the argument is here. And what you are implying is a slippery slope towards a tiered healthcare system where politicians get to make a value judgement on whether people are treated or not. Thus opening the door for all kinds of dystopia scenarios that we thought were relegated to history (e.g. forced sterilisation of minority groups; eugenics even).

Interesting you raise forced sterilisation of minority groups and eugenics.

I mentioned upthread that I am the mother of an autistic teen who was gender questioning pre-puberty.

My concern about forced sterilisation comes from Labour's statement that it will prioritise trans healthcare and the impact that might have on vulnerable teenage autistic children (but girls in particular).

The impact of puberty blockers, then cross sex hormones, then surgeries can be, although clearly is not always, to sterilise these children.

Obviously there are some high profile trans men who have gone on to have babies (whilst living as men? ) , but other vulnerable children, ones in care, neurodiverse are having their fertility taken away by trans health care.

Does this not concern you? It really worries me.

Especially with detransitioner stories such as that of Keira Bell.

can u show me the people saying 'yay tories'? can u twke on board the damage labour are doing to women's rights?

@AdamRyan yeah, that had me a bit baffled, thank you for clarifying my thoughts there, you've articulated them well!
If you need healthcare, you need healthcare.
We all need it, and for different reasons at different times.
It's not a tiered system of straight people over LGBT people or the other way round and nor should it be!
I mean, for example someone who's straight needs heart surgery.
Do people think someone who's LGBT who has a completely different condition at the same time is going to get leapfrogged to the front of the queue, or that the non LGBT person wont have doctors available for them at the same time and will have to wait or something?!
As that's bonkers if so.

If an person has been approved and referred for treatment, they should be able to get that treatment in a timely way, regardless of whether they belong to a particular group.

I agree, but apparently Sir Keir Starmer thinks differently:

Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care

you need to rtft. a pp listed Tory atrocities in Rees mogg. I responded to that. I quoted them. The poster then responded to me again.

The Labour policy is not to "make it easier for women to pretend to be men", whatever that means. It's to make it less bureaucratic for people who have been diagnosed with dysphoria by a medical professional to get a GRC.

When Labour were in power males were not in womens prisons or women's wards. That's happened under the Tories. Personally I think its been a quite hard headed response by the Conservatives to knowingly throw women under the bus because they don't want to pay for single sex wards or enough prison accommodation. Hence why they are currently not locking up suspected violent rapists at all.

Do people think someone who's LGBT who has a completely different condition at the same time is going to get leapfrogged to the front of the queue, or that the non LGBT person wont have doctors available for them at the same time and will have to wait or something?!
As that's bonkers if so.

Well yes apparently Sir Keir Starmer does:

Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care

The quesrion is whether Labour will row back on the appalling anti women stance which they're awful GRA has led to. They won't. It should not be less beuracratic for a man to get a bit of paper saying he's a woman. It should be impossible. Because people can't change sex and when we pretend they can, women pay the price.