To not vote Labour because of their abhorrent views on the female sex?

[Lion400]

Starmer cannot represent women, he can’t even define us. Questioning a trans person is a hate crime, but misogyny is not. Sorry Labour, you’ve lost my vote. Have they lost anyone else’s??

‘On trans ideology, the vast majority of voters, and certainly a majority of traditional Labour voters from working class backgrounds, tend to cast a sceptical eye on the tenets of an ideological movement that asserts that biological men must be accepted as women – and be offered similar rights and access to women’s spaces and sports as women – simply by asserting their new status’

Surely you would be better to organise and put pressure on Labour to rethink their position? Obviously its frustrating that trans activists have got in first. But otherwise who are you going to vote for the Tories?

https://thoughtfultherapists.org/

Because labour are the only real challenge to our appalling Tory government. What makes you think people aren't putting pressure on other parties?

Do your own research.

Labour could so easily resolve the issues they have with alienated voters by outlining with clarity how they will reform the GRA in order to make sure that single sex exemptions remain protected.

The calls for a clearer distinction between biological sex and gender identity have been prominent for well over a year. If Labour really wanted to re-assure its lost sheep ( the ones they have previously been told they are not wanted) and give confidence to the public - in the face of the non action you say is the hallmark of the Tories, they could easily do so.

And how is any of this a bad thing?

And as for the self ID, Labour are not planning to introduce it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/26/labour-grassroots-back-starmer-gender-self-identification#:~:text=The%20party%20shifted%20its%20stance,gender%20without%20a%20medical%20diagnosis.

Repeating the same, wrong information over and over again doesn't make it true.

Furthermore the Labour party could so easily back calls from across the chamber for tougher restrictions on the teaching of gender identity theory as if it were fact, in schools; protect singles sex toilets in schools, and protect single sex sports where necessary.

The fact that Labour still pays its dues to Stonewall makes most of the above highly unlikley , though.

Do you think no one tried?! Do you think 1000s of left-leaning women, many of them having been lifelong political activists, having marched and leafleted and doorstepped for Labour, just went ' I don't like that policy, it's extremely flawed, but I won't say anything I'll just go? I didn't leave the left, it left me.

RTFT

Exactly!

I work with people who have been exposed to conversion therapy which is extremely harmful and traumatising. For any of you to think this is a good idea for trans people are exposing yourselves as wanting actual harm on a group of vulnerable people = the definition of transphobia.

This thread is full of people saying they'll vote Labour to protect the NHS.

Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care

What healthcare are LGB people needing to go to the front of NHS queues for, above straight people? Or is he perhaps talking only about the T? What healthcare do T people need above non-T people? Elective mastectomies for vulnerable teenage girls? Wrong sex hormones for middle aged males, when menopausal women can't even get them half the time?

Even if you think the threat to women's rights and safeguarding is a 'culture war' , Starmer literally said that.

Surely you would be better to organise and put pressure on Labour to rethink their position?

Plenty of women did this.

Their party membership was cancelled.

Some women have lost their jobs/not had long standing contracts renewed because of their position on this.

Some women have been physically attacked by 'vulnerable' TW for their position on this.

Some organisations have had their funding withdrawn for their position on this.

Many women have tried.

I think that saying that the rights of 51% of the population are something that the electorate don't care about is offensive nonsense.

Some people on here may get a real shock at the GE.

Oh, and some women have been denied medical care through their position on this.

Thoughtful Therapists sound dodgy as hell. The Co-founder of this organisation was actually thrown out of his psychotherapy course. So he isn't even a trained psychotherapist, which is characteristic of many of these peddlers of quack medicine.

• While we can see there are merits to a ban on conversion practices to protect vulnerable people from extreme homophobic, religious and cult-like groups* *we do not believe that additional legislation is necessary as these acts are already covered by existing laws.
• We believe that there is no convincing evidence that conversion therapy is being practiced within regulated therapy settings in UK.
• We believe that whether the government passes a conversion therapy law or not, our freedom to practice normal exploratory therapy is restricted by the existence of the Memorandum of Understanding on Conversion Therapy.

Seriously. Ridiculous.

Research what constitutes trans 'conversion therapy' and you may get a shock.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. A legal challenge upheld the illegality of his being thrown off his course. What do you think the bullet points prove? They are very sensible things to say.

Actual conversion therapy is awful and already illegal. Not saying 'yes you're a lady cos you say you are' is not real conversion therapy but this is what people want to ban.

Sure it is,they'll all be waterboarded until they repent.

With regards to conversion therapy where it relates to the T part, the valid concerns of some therapists, including whistleblowers at GIDS, has been that some children who identify as Trans may actually be gay.

There is nothing wrong with same sex attraction, there have been horrific stories, largely outwith the UK where gay people have suffered from converstion therapy akin to torture because being gay is perceived a 'bad thing'. In parts of the world gay men have become trans women because it is criminal to be gay.

Therapists are rightly concerned that exploring the reasons a person might believe that they are trans comes within the remit of 'conversion therapy' which is so widely defined that it includes anything that isn't full acceptance without exception. How horrific to put young people on transition pathways effectively because they are gay and / or autistic or otherwise vulnerable.

Acceptance without exception of a person being trans is not neutral. It works on the premise that a person must some how be born wrong, it works on the premise that they may need body modification to look like they feel they should. In young children social transition is deemed not to be neutral - see the Cass Report, yet it can be considered conversion to adopt the watchful wait approach recommended by Cass. This is aside from the fact that socially transitioning a child has an impact on other children who are forced to lie about the sex of their peer and sometimes to share single sex facilities with the child of the opposite sex.

I have attached the Cass review for those who are interested. If Starmer wanted to protect children, and you will see that the number of children who identify as trans who are gay or autistic or otherwise vulnerable, he could easily commit to following the recommendations of the report. Instead he has made a comment regarding 'parental consent' and that's it as far as I can tell. That along with commitments to ease processes for obtaining a GRC and mutterings about conversion therapy and hate crimes makes me dubious that he will follow the findings of the Review.

Come on Starmer, do the right thing by our young people.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf

The fact there are 5 million threads about how this is all Labour's fault, vote tory because at least they know what a woman is and barely any about the conservatives? The conservatives essentially have the same policy so it's a bit weird

So you keep saying, despite all of the posts which point out that they don't.

Most of us on here have no intention to vote Tory.

We are looking to Labour to do the right thing by women and children. Why you think this is too much to ask in the run up to an election actually baffles me, unless you are actually in agreement with Labour's position on this.

I'm also very about the continuous use of 'same sex attraction' here, which is a term that certain anti-gay institutions use, including those in favour of conversion therapy. If you people were that well informed on these issues, you'd know this. It's a loaded term.

Well what is being gay if it is not being exclusive same sex attracted?

I wonder if you mean the LGB Alliance when you say 'anti gay institutions' which is laughable really.

Or do you subscribe to the theory that lesbians can have a penis?

If you mean something else then please do explain.

What’s wrong with the term same-sex attraction? Have I missed something! How can that be anti-gay? Are there connotations I’m unaware of?