To not vote Labour because of their abhorrent views on the female sex?

[Lion400]

Starmer cannot represent women, he can’t even define us. Questioning a trans person is a hate crime, but misogyny is not. Sorry Labour, you’ve lost my vote. Have they lost anyone else’s??

‘On trans ideology, the vast majority of voters, and certainly a majority of traditional Labour voters from working class backgrounds, tend to cast a sceptical eye on the tenets of an ideological movement that asserts that biological men must be accepted as women – and be offered similar rights and access to women’s spaces and sports as women – simply by asserting their new status’

AdamRyan
Scraping the barrel a bit there clav
How are we going to manage "innocent until proven guilty" if barristers can then be smeared when they represent objectionable people?

Fabian Henry had already been convicted and served a jail sentence. Starmer and other politicians signed a letter of protest to prevent his deportation - this was just before he became Labour leader.

You are constructing your arguments as if you are trying to counter committed Tory voters...but that is not the case, no matter how much you would like it to be. Personally, I've never voted Tory. I'm a now ex Labour party member. I've been spoiling my ballot in recent times. I'll never vote for a candidate who openly supports that which I essentailly oppose, as is the case with my Labour MP.

Yes, the Tories do have members such as Maria Miller - who are in thrall to Stonewall. Let's not forget the Tories have been in office for 13 years -and yet the active and vocal opposition to gender ideology has only got going since the proposal for Self Id came about - in 2017.

Until then, there had been absolutely no debate, anywhere, about gender ideology; or even that there was a such thing. It had been slid in under the radar onto the statute books - as was always the intention. It was known by those lobbying bodies such as Stonewall that Self Id would not be popular at all - so the trick was to get it through on the coat tails of gay marriage equality in 2014 - so that nobody would really look at, or analyse it.

Don't forget that when it all did becoem a public issue the Labour party suspended women from CLP's, and front benchers signed a document calling women's campaign groups 'hate groups'. 'No Debate' became official Labour party policy ( not so Tory) and all we ever got was people chanting the mantra TWAW,TWAW,TWAW......

We ll now we do have a debate, but Labour is still wedded to virtual self Id though Starmer is weaseling around trying to fudge it and use ambiguoius language to disguise that fact.

Actually, some of us care about the women being locked in prison cells with males, being raped in 'female' hospital wards and no longer being able to complete fairly in sports

I care about those things. I don't see how caring about those things means I can't vote Labour?

Im not voting Labour because of this issue.
Not voting SNP Green or Lib Dem either.

I'll be voting Conservative for the first time and have absolutely no shame about it as there isn't an alternative.

Well I’m pleased to see that many other women, share my view. Let’s keep on. We cannot and must not let Labour take away women’s rights.

Many of us feel particularly betrayed because we believed in Labour. Several of the posters (incl myself) were even members at one point. And now we cannot vote for them.

It's Labour's fault that those incidents happened under a Tory government

I will be voting Labour as the Conservatives are abhorrent in almost every respect and have completely ruined this country in the last 14 years, and almost everything was better when Labour were in power.

@LesbianNan Adam has said that they're not a man, that they're female, not sure if it was on this thread or another that I saw that.
Just because a username has a man's name in it doesn't mean the poster automatically is!

I can't say as I give a gibbering fuck about whether TWAW compared with whether we have a decent NHS or good state schools.

The day cannot come soon enough when we get rid of this incompetent corrupt shower.

Your daughter has more to worry about in relation to any current and future penises in her own household than about any potential trans penis in a public toilet.

I just knew we'd end up with a penis-obsessed thread!

Should we assume that Lion400 is male then?

Yes, by paying attention to what Labour party people are saying in committee meetings; the interviews they are giving to Stonewall and LGBTQ+ groups and to Pink News; by listening to what they say they mean by " modernising the GRA to make it more simple"; by paying attention to what active backbenchers are saying and doing and what they are campaigning for; for example Lloyd Russell Moyle; Nadia Whittome; Stella Creasy; Ben Bradshaw; my own MP.......and so on.

By being aware of the politics of local CLPs; by being aware that nobody from her own party has yet to stand up and openly support Rosie Duffield; that others are frightened to speak up, and that when they do they are harrassed and villified. By watching the interview ( disastrous for him) with Iain Anderson last year after he'd defected to Labour in order to influence their policy on Self ID, and so on.

😂 very good

Do they not get a say? They both already think I'm a transphobe so that wouldn't go down well with them 😂

You have very high hopes for an incoming Labour administration. I hope you are not going to feel too disappointed and let down.

An impoverished NHS is funding hormones, puberty blockers and surgery for young people who identify as trans. There are politicians who campaign for males to have access to women only wards and other facilities; and for women not to have the right to say they want same sex intimate care.

Thank you anyway, but I'm not sure of your point? I don't go round searching the site to determine sex. Adam hasn't said that Adam is a woman as far as I can see on THIS thread.

I'm female. It is a point of supreme amusement to me that very GC feminists regularly assume I'm a man on the basis of an anonymous Internet handle.
I've had it for years, it's a character from one of my favourite books. Nothing deeper than that!
Maybe I have a male posting style, whatever that is

DuncinToffee
It's Labour's fault that those incidents happened under a Tory government

This incident happened under a Labour government;

Sep 2009
A [trans] prisoner serving life for manslaughter and attempted rape committed while she was a man has won a high court battle to be transferred to a women's jail.

Phillippa Kaufmann, appearing for A, told the court: "The transfer should be effective in a few weeks."

Kaufmann had described at a recent hearing how, although apparently born male, A had her womanhood recognised by law and her birth certificate had been amended to show her female sex.

To complete her change to full womanhood, she required gender reassignment surgery, but had been told she could not have it while she remained in a men's prison.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/sep/04/transsexual-human-rights-courts

That read to me as "prior to 2010 males could only access female prison on condition of full gender reassignment. Since 2010 theres been a move to allow males access on the basis of self declaration". I.e. on the Tories watch.

Bit of an own goal
🥅⚽️🤦‍♀️

I'm female. It is a point of supreme amusement to me that very GC feminists regularly assume I'm a man on the basis of an anonymous Internet handle
Yes, that's why I was clarifying you're female as I've seen it happen on here all too often before, being assumed to be a man due to a username, or as you say due to a "not womanly enough" posting style whatever that is 😁

AdamRyan
That read to me as "prior to 2010 males could only access female prison on condition of full gender reassignment

My post quite clearly states that the prisoner had not had full gender reassignment.

*full gender reassignment - as in surgery.

Well my mistake, apologies if I've called you he.
What does writing like a man look like?

They were appealing the block to their move in 2009 because they hadn't had surgery. Thus proving the situation in 2009 was different to today. The Tories came in a year later.

This in no way shows anything about Labour. But also, it was 15 years ago!

Yes it’s extremely unreasonable to not vote Labour based on one issue that may or may not come into reality and will probably be under much debate and scrutiny before any decisions made, which will effect a minority of society. The Tories have literally screwed over the majority already, including women, and destroyed large parts of the U.K., NHS, services and support, immigration, whilst also being misogynistic. We have lived through terrible times under the tories and anyone voting for them now must be very sure they aren’t about to become homeless, jobless, disabled or mentally ill. The general public is much much closer to poverty than ever becoming rich enough to benefit from a tory government.
The issue of gender, safe spaces, sports etc is an important one, but to vote for a demonstrably awful government over a potentially better one because of this one issue is unreasonable.