To not vote Labour because of their abhorrent views on the female sex?

[Lion400]

Starmer cannot represent women, he can’t even define us. Questioning a trans person is a hate crime, but misogyny is not. Sorry Labour, you’ve lost my vote. Have they lost anyone else’s??

‘On trans ideology, the vast majority of voters, and certainly a majority of traditional Labour voters from working class backgrounds, tend to cast a sceptical eye on the tenets of an ideological movement that asserts that biological men must be accepted as women – and be offered similar rights and access to women’s spaces and sports as women – simply by asserting their new status’

@IClaudine

Please can you define a genuine trans woman when you have self ID?

Why don't the Tories? 🤔
Could it be because in fact it is not a vote winner? 🤔

I really thought after Rishi's conference speech, we'd see something in the King's Speech for this parliament. But Nadal. I wonder why 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Are any parties proposing self ID? Labour definitely aren't

The party shifted its stance in the summer, abandoning its support for self-identification – which would allow people to legally change gender without a medical diagnosis. It announced the move alongside support for making the process of obtaining a gender recognition certificate far simpler and less invasive, as well as continuing to ensure some single-sex services and places could only be accessed by biological women.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/26/labour-grassroots-back-starmer-gender-self-identification

Goodness me, this thread is about the Labour Party.

What the Tories do or don't do is irrelevant to what the Labour Party is doing.

I'll say again, it's in AIBU, hence its a debate about the thread title with opposing parties. What the Tories are doing is very relevant as they are the main option to those not voting labour on this issue.

If people don't want to discuss the Tory position, maybe AIBU is not the place for the thread?

@AdamRyan

Please define genuine trans woman then.

You could go back to the FWR one and enjoy the echo chamber there for example?

Yes, they are.....the " modernising the GRA" is guff for 'Self ID'. Starmer is a weasel with his words. He continues to meet with Stonewall on a regular basis and gives interviews to Pink News on the issue.

Why do you think Stonewall board member Iain Anderson. crossed the chamber from Tory to Labour recently? He said it was to have an impact on Labour policy going forward. The Labour party is peopled by many very open trans activists - including my own Labour MP.

Not sure how simplifying the GRC process is going to mean less males in single sex spaces. It will increase the number of 'legal women'.

@AdamRyan yes, bit impossible to have an AIBU discussion about Labour if you're not to mention the other main party that's actually in power and their policies (or lack of!)

Adam can't hear what anyone else says on here.
He must spend all his time off the site listening to Billy Bragg songs.
Enough to make anyone lose the ability to listen.

I think we're quite enjoying it here tbh, even if you are not.

Hadn't realised Ian Anderson was a Tory! That's hilarious given how Rishi et Al. have been so anti-Stonewall. It's almost like they are full of shit! Thanks for the laugh

For balance Starmer speaks to Diva Magazine this month

https://diva-magazine.com/2024/01/29/exclusive-keir-starmer-lgbtqia-rights/

“We’ll strengthen the law, so every category of hate crime is treated as an aggravated offence,” Starmer said. “We’ll cut NHS waiting lists for LGBT+ people waiting for urgent physical and mental health care. We’ll modernise the Gender Recognition Act. We’ll implement a full, trans-inclusive, ban on all forms of conversion therapy. We fully support the view that conversion therapy is psychologically damaging abuse.”

@lifeturnsonadime What the tories do or don’t do is relevant. They’ve been in power 14 years.
I always think that if this is the most important concern in your life above everything else, if the state of the country and its public services doesn’t bother you or affect you, you’re either very well off or really don’t give a damn about anyone else but your niche obsession.

I've frequently seen men described as penis havers. Is that dehumanising as well?

We don't have that in the UK.

Yes of course.

Human's shouldn't be reduced to being described by body parts because the words Man and woman have been rendered meaningless.

AdamRyan
The Labour Party have as a matter of policy said they will update the GRA and strengthen the EA, plus provide better legal guidance to organisations to protect single sex spaces.

If it's a matter of Labour Party policy, why was Anneliese Dodds so fudgy in her October conference speech? No mention of single sex spaces here;

And we will modernise the gender recognition law to a new process, while continuing to support the implementation of the Equality Act that protects everyone.

Same old names piling on as usual. I’m fairly GC but the spiteful shutting down of discussion is pathetic.

The Tory party has people captured by trans ideology too; the main difference is that trans ideology is not official party policy going forward. It was the Conservatives that blocked Self ID remember, and commissioned the Cass Review. But you know that already - you just want it to be a 'Tory versus Labour' slanging match so as to distract from what the Labour party is itself saying it is going to do.

What the tories do or don’t do is relevant. They’ve been in power 14 years
I always think that if this is the most important concern in your life above everything else, if the state of the country and its public services doesn’t bother you or affect you, you’re either very well off or really don’t give a damn about anyone else but your niche obsession.

Yes, the state of the country, the constant culture wars and damaged public services are much more of a concern to me!

Was wondering why we hadn’t had many threads about men in women’s toilets recently 😂 no doubt the closer we get to a GE the more we’ll see. So transparent.

That is what lies beneath " Modernising the GRA and making it more simple", though.

I'm enjoying it very much! I love shining a bit of sunlight on what Labour actually say vs. What some posters pretend they say.

The only thing that would improve it in my opinion would be jgw being here. Especially now Clav has joined us too. Big guns arriving to shore up the Tory defence