Nursery refused place aibu

[Honeyplease]

Saw a lovely nursery 2 weeks ago. Looking to start my 2yo son who is currently with a childminder. I mentioned that he had tried preschool but didnt get on with it too well (he is only just 2 and the preschool had mostly 3/4 year olds) I also mentioned that I suspect him to be neurodiverse but I wasn’t sure (no diagnosis or anything) he is developmentally on track he just has odd quips.

Was given a reg form, sent it back same day. Waited.. nothing. sent another email, and another.. tried calling. Left a voicemail. Basically 2 weeks of chasing. Nothing.

Today I finally received an email back from the owner.

“The problem I have in securing the place is we already have children coming through with significant needs and I'm concerned having spoken to our special educational needs coordinator that we won't have the capacity to give your son the the quality of care he deserves just like any other child.”

I am stunned! Aibu? surely they cannot do this.

If it is a private nursery then yes they can do this.

State schools have to meet the needs of their students (or at least try to, and they aren't supposed to turn you away although some do try).

Private schools and private nurseries do not.

I've had this exact problem (except with my diagnosed but low needs, DC) with a state school. When I then got in touch with the LA's admissions team they said yes they absolutely can if they believe they cannot provide the care the child needs

Private nurseries don't have to take any child if they don't want to.
State nurseries could probably say no too as they aren't compulsory.

Of course they can. A private nursery is a business, they can take or refuse any child they want for whatever reason.

Next nursery you look around I'd suggest not mentioning possible neurodiversity especially as you don't have a diagnosis and presumably your child is not under any specialist intervention.

If your child is under specialist intervention I would speak to them as they may be able to suggest a special nursery.

They can refuse anyone if they want to. Would you really want him in a childcare setting which doesn't have the resources to give him the help and attention that he might need?

Of course they can. A private nursery is a business, they can take or refuse any child they want for whatever reason. whilst this is true in practice if the nursery receives EY funding for the eligible children they cannot discriminate on disability grounds.

If you want his neurodiversity sufficiency supported then you were right to mention it and they were right to turn you down if they cannot accommodate adjustments.

If you over egged the situation - after all you have no diagnosis and children do develop differently, then perhaps don't mention it next time? It's difficult from your OP to know how significant the issues he has are, so, if you fully expect them to accommodate him and perhaps even mention things to you that they notice, then you do need a nursery that has the resources for this.

I think that's a reasonable response.

You've said he had difficulty settling.
And you think he may have SEN but he hasn't been diagnosed yet.

Both of those may well take up a single person's time quite significantly. There's also that if he has SEN but has not got a diagnosis yet, then they may need to put in time and effort into getting that diagnosed.

If they already know that due to people already there, that time is very limited, then they're being honest with you. That your ds is worth more than the time they may be able to give him.

Wouldn't you rather they said that, than he started and they couldn't cope with him?

When I was a childminder Ofsted and the local authority took a dim view of settings that cherry picked.

I'd look elsewhere as I wouldn't want a nursery that had been strong armed.

But you were absolutely right to make the nursery aware how else can you ensure the setting is appropriate without asking the relevant questions to your child specific needs.

I would inform the local authority about the email you received.

Just to be clear private nurseries are still regulated by ofsted and work under a local authority

I had the same happen with DC3 with a nursery that does wrap around too, even though their past nursery and school gave a glowing report about how helpful, kind and cooperative they were, a strong asset to the class and a good influence on other dc. They had a diagnosis that has a huge range in terms of support needs. Had they agreed to meet dc they would have seen that. Rejected. I know many other dc at that centre with 100x the needs of my dc. I think it was ableism and fear of diagnosis' vs actual evidence of needs. They were able to admit in a 1 line email what they were 'concerned about'. I showed it to nursery and DC3's teacher who said they could not have been further from the truth. Both offered to contact the nursery but I let it drop - their response to me showed they wouldn't be as inclusive of children with needs. DC transitioned to another place and it's literally been seamless. They often joke they could use her in every class and that all the younger dc look up to her.

This is right in principle, but some Nursery have so many dc with really significant needs at the moment, that actually they are really over stretched and genuinely do not have capacity to have anyone else in the room who might need additional support.
Of course, it would be lovely to think Nurseries can magic more staff out of the air to meet the needs of all children, most Nurseries at the moment are struggling to recruit qualified staff to even meet minimum ratios, long before they have children that can't cope in the minimum ratios.

What "should" be right, and what happens in reality are very different.

Speaking as mum to ASD 4 year old. It is far better that they admit now to not being able to support him rather than doing a bad job of it.

They’re not the right setting for your son - I don’t want my son anywhere that insinuates that they are anything but privileged to look after (biased opinion) but such a special little guy!

I work in a childcare setting but not in UK, where I work we cannot legally say no as my place is entirely state funded and this would be discriminatory. That said if a child came in this week even with the mildest of issues we would simply be useless to help him as we are really overstretched right now and it would be a negative experience for the child. We were doing OK and then a new boy started in Dec with very high needs and requires one on one supervision, there is literally nothing for him to do as nothing is suited to his needs. We finally got a new staff member for him but for weeks we had to suspend all art projects, story times etc. It's incredibly unfair on staff, and on the other children and their parents too. It's also unfair on this child who is in a totally inappropriate environment for his needs. Your DS may be better off somewhere else, it may be simply they are in a situation like I described and the timing is bad. It's really unfortunate for you though. I hope he gets something soon OP.

This might be a good thing for your son TBH. DS whose needs were unknown at age 3 (now on the autism pathway) went to a preschool with 5 or 6 other children with SEN in his room and it was too much for him at times and quite challenging for the staff.

Why would you want to label your child as neurodiverse when you don't even know this to be true?

This. Why did you mention it.

I know they can’t refuse if the child had as EHCP. They can say they don’t have the correct staffing ratios for children with undiagnosed SEN.

They can refuse a place for any reason. One nursery told me to look elsewhere after asking where I work - the commute is about 50 minutes, and they were only accepting parents who could get there more quickly if asked to do so. I was unimpressed but it was clear they wouldn't have been right for us either.

It sounds like you've possibly played up your concerns about him, maybe with the hopes it would get you a place, but they've taken them as being significant, when they probably aren't, and it's backfired.

If you do want a place, I'd go back and have a conversation with them to say that they seem to have misunderstood (if you think they have) and you don't have any significant SEND related concerns for him (if you don't), and ask if they would consider assessing him or meeting with you again to discuss. Realistically, they just may not have the staffing and this was a convenient way to put you off.

Of course they can 🤷🏻‍♀️ - find somewhere that can adequately look after your child and his needs.

It’s hard because in theory if they have space for one, it should be a space for any child regardless of need.

However, in practice if a child needs significant support, they’ll need additional supervision and nurseries can’t just produce more staff out of thin air. We have taken on a little boy who has a whole range of needs and requires someone to be next to him at all times. We can’t access funding for him as he isn’t on the 2/3/4 year old funding so we’re making a huge financial loss by having him. It just wouldn’t be possible for us to support another child who needed the same level of care.

Of course they can and absolutely SHOULD do this.
Why would you want your son to be there if they can't meet his needs?

Of course it’s reasonable.

I wouldn’t want my child to have less than the necessary support they needed at nursery. Why would he go there if they can’t meet that?