Nursery refused place aibu

[Honeyplease]

Saw a lovely nursery 2 weeks ago. Looking to start my 2yo son who is currently with a childminder. I mentioned that he had tried preschool but didnt get on with it too well (he is only just 2 and the preschool had mostly 3/4 year olds) I also mentioned that I suspect him to be neurodiverse but I wasn’t sure (no diagnosis or anything) he is developmentally on track he just has odd quips.

Was given a reg form, sent it back same day. Waited.. nothing. sent another email, and another.. tried calling. Left a voicemail. Basically 2 weeks of chasing. Nothing.

Today I finally received an email back from the owner.

“The problem I have in securing the place is we already have children coming through with significant needs and I'm concerned having spoken to our special educational needs coordinator that we won't have the capacity to give your son the the quality of care he deserves just like any other child.”

I am stunned! Aibu? surely they cannot do this.

If you think your child is ND then you will want him to be somewhere that meets his needs and he is able to settle. How far along the assessment are you as you might well want an EHCP in place for school and the whole process can take years.

Of course it’s reasonable. And tbh you should be grateful they’ve said this rather than take your son on and it not work out and disturb his current routine!

Not sure I would have mentioned your suspicions re SENs without a formal diagnosis - there are significant staffing and support issues implied by such a diagnosis that makes it perfectly valid for them to decline an application on this basis.

Moreover, it may be that he doesn’t have one - it is very difficult to diagnose in children the age of your DS any way and if he has met all of his developmental milestones then ND is actually less likely? Sometimes kids just have quirks and don’t need a ‘label’.

Both mine are late diagnosed NDs but, in retrospect, there were clear indicators (late speech development; need for speech therapy when they did start; crawling at 4m/ walking by 8m, ie too early for full development in both stages etc).

I would chalk this up to experience and, when applying to other nursery setting, keep my thoughts on the issue to myself until after he has a place and, even then, only raise it if a staff member has concerns.

I can tell you about this from the other side. I run a small private business. I will take a maximum of 4 children, 2 of them cover my costs and 2 of them are my profit/wage. If I need to only take 3 to be safe and deliver the quality I want to, I still need 2 to cover the costs, and my profit has halved. That is the reality from the other side.

Would you prefer them to not tell you, takr your son and then not meet his needs on a daily basis? It is incredibly hard to support the ever increasing number of children with SEND with no extra funding or anything (tbh even with its incredibly hard). I understand you feel annoyed they’ve turned you down but I’m just curious what you actually expect them to do?

They can refuse, especially if they do have other children with additional needs.
I work in a nursery and it's hard on the days when there are multiple children in with additional needs. Your child is 2, so nurserys work on a 1:4/1:5 (going by new ratio rules) so for every 4/5 children there's only one member of staff. Say there's 12 children in the room, that's 3 staff. Now say out of those 12, 2 are special needs, requiring 1:1, that's one member of staff essentially looking after 10 children... Yes the management would try and allot more staff to the room but it's not always possible and they don't get much of any funding, especially if the children aren't diagnosed.

They've said no to ensure the safety of all the other children in the room. It sucks but either ring and ask if there's any days they can accommodate, or find another nursery that can accommodate your child.

Of course they can especially if they don't have a legally correct carer/child ratio for a child with additional needs. If you suspect he is ND you need to seek a proper diagnosis or not mention it when looking for nurseries- it may well change the care he needs and if they cannot provide that he will be declined again and without an proper diagnosis it maybe completely unnecessary anyway.

Why would you say you suspect he is neurodivergent when you have no diagnosis and he is developmentally on track then say it’s odd quips
So you don’t think he’s neurodivergent then?plus it’s unreliable to diagnose a 2 year old - usually a final diagnosis comes when they are older
Most parents say their kids are neurodivergent- being non neurodivergent seems to be odd now

The amount of children coming through early years with additional needs is unprecedented. There is no additional funding to support interventions for them. The waiting list to even be discussed by the SEN team is longer than the child is likely to be with you. Everywhere is full to the brim of children, but down to the bones from staff. It's not discrimination, it's just purely impossible.

This is actually really fair from them.
Surely they know when they are on capacity and your son is better off getting the attentiom he needs

OP is there any reason why you need to move your son from the childminder? Is he not happy there?

Even if a nursery accepts your son if they find his needs are more than they have staff and funding to deal with, there are various tricks they will try to ensure he can't attend the hours you want. Unfortunately I know a couple of parents who suffered with this.

It sounds like you really played up the neurodiversity that you suspect but have no diagnosis for. I can understand a nursery being reluctant to take a child that they will have no wider support for.

I also have yet to meet a 2yr old without quirks. Why do you suspect ND?

Yup. This.

The sector is broken.

Same as the ambulance service, hospital waiting lists, the lack of GP appts, (on the news just now) the lack of dentists, the lack of social workers, teachers, and so on and so on and so on.

In theory, of course it would be lovely to think every child can have a Nursery place, and a Nursery place that is high quality, safe, caring, loving, and staffed by well paid, happy staff who have an excellent knowledge of child development, safety, safeguarding, the EYFS, SEND, and who have enough time to meet the needs of each child.
In the same way it would be nice to be able to phone your GP, get through, and make an appointment at a convenient time; or for every secondary pupil to have a qualified teacher in front of the class, let alone a teacher actually qualified in the subject they are teaching; or, when you have an accident, serious medical episode, or trauma you were triaged within minutes of arriving at A&E, then given somewhere comfortable to sit whilst waiting to be seen by the right professional within and hour or so, and then to be moved to a bed if needed.
I could go on.
What should happen, need to be funded, and for too long, people have preferred to have politicians who are happy for all those cuts to have been made.

Do you know how hard it is to get a diagnosis or how many years the waiting lists for assessments are or the importance of early intervention for outcomes for neurodiverse children or how bloody obvious it is with some kids?

Thought not. In fact your comment seems to read that "labelling your child" as neurodiverse is a bad thing that will harm the child. Do you inherently stigmatise other medical conditions that have an adverse affect on people's daily lives as well? Might want to examine your own biases and prejudices there.

OP speaking as a SEN parent, if it does turn out to be a ND, you need to develop a bloody thick skin for this fight. The road is long and arduous, and you need to carry your child on your shoulders to get the outcomes that will be best for him. And there are arseholes behind every corner who will fall over themselves to reject you or tell you it's bad parenting or lie about the availability of places or just generally shit on you to make themselves feel good about their dismal lives for 5 minutes. But a PP is right. This nursery have just filtered themselves out as unworthy for caring for your precious child.

They want to keep your child safe, you think he has SEN, they don’t think they have the staffing to ensure his safety so of course they can say they can’t take him. It’s (presumably) a private nursery so they can take/reject whoever they want.

ND is a lot more than 'odd quips'....also I think PP saying the nursery have shown themselves to be unworthy arent being fair. They've been honest! What else can they do?!

Please ignore the comments telling you not to mention it next time, a supportive nursery can be crucial to helping secure early diagnosis and having the right support in place by the time your child reaches school age!

Child who is developmentally on track, just a few unusual quirks? Not clear to me why a regular nursery wouldn't be able to meet his needs.

OP, they are probably stressed out from dealing with several children with significant needs, and are jumping to conclusions and imagining a much more difficult scenario than the one you describe. I'd chalk it up to lessons learned, and just not say anything when applying to the next nursery.

I think you were 100% right to mention your concerns about your DS's neurodiversity. It was very brave of you, but I think it is right to be open about possible issues from the start.

That having been said, I think it is also right if the nursery made a decision as to whether or not they can accomodate your DS based on their knowledge of him and the other children they already have on their books.

Sorry for a shit answer.

I posted a similar thread under a different name years ago and got (rightly) flamed but at the time it did hurt so much and felt so unfair that they wouldn’t take my ds. I felt as though he was being punished for being different and that it was somehow a reflexion on how the rest of his life would be (I was wrong by the way). I had been on a waiting list for a place for quite a while and when they called me they asked if I suspected autism and then went on to suggest a special needs pre school to me as they couldn’t meet his needs. I was devastated but on reflection it was the best thing they could have ever done because my son needed a little extra support and they couldn’t provide it and he ended up at a much more suitable setting and he absolutely thrived.
If a pre school have clearly stated that they don’t have the staff/time to meet your child’s needs, even if that is just to help with little quirks and anxieties then you don’t want your child there.

I'm absolutely baffled as to why you told them you think he's neurodiverse because he has "odd quips". He's 2 with no diagnosis.

The nursery are right to state if they are unable to support a child with additional needs. You've shot yourself in the foot.

Hi OP, I work with SEND children and am ND myself. I’m so sorry this has happened I have had to say no to parents based on safety/ratios and if it’s any consolation absolutely fucking heartbreaking. Knowing how little support families have and knowing you are part of the problem, but you simply can’t take care of their child because you’re already dangerously overstretched or underequipped. They should have been more transparent with you, that’s not good, but ultimately they feel they cannot safely support your child.

To the PP who said this makes the nursery ‘unworthy’ or untrustworthy- get a fucking grip. They’ve done nothing wrong. I get how hard it is, I really do, but for fuck’s safe treat the underpaid overworked staff who are caring for your child with the respect and understanding you demand for yourself otherwise you are directly part of the grave understaffing problem. They’re not your enemy here.

You wouldn't be very happy if they took him on and then felt his needs were not met.

If he needs extra care would you be willing to pay extra for an extra member of staff to watch him all the time?

Bu y