Nursery refused place aibu

[Honeyplease]

Saw a lovely nursery 2 weeks ago. Looking to start my 2yo son who is currently with a childminder. I mentioned that he had tried preschool but didnt get on with it too well (he is only just 2 and the preschool had mostly 3/4 year olds) I also mentioned that I suspect him to be neurodiverse but I wasn’t sure (no diagnosis or anything) he is developmentally on track he just has odd quips.

Was given a reg form, sent it back same day. Waited.. nothing. sent another email, and another.. tried calling. Left a voicemail. Basically 2 weeks of chasing. Nothing.

Today I finally received an email back from the owner.

“The problem I have in securing the place is we already have children coming through with significant needs and I'm concerned having spoken to our special educational needs coordinator that we won't have the capacity to give your son the the quality of care he deserves just like any other child.”

I am stunned! Aibu? surely they cannot do this.

The mother has told them that the child has additional needs and they are unable to accommodate the child in the time it would take to apply to the LA for funding and support.

Should the nursery be expected to fund the additional support in that timeframe? What about the resources that would take from the other children?

Well done the nursery manager and staff for spending time realistically and professionally assessing the situation and their staffing expertise, and come to the conclusion that they couldn't accommodate his needs. Would you prefer them to take him on, and then discover they don't look after him properly?

We are looking after a child who has severe delays. He is working with lots of professionals but his family haven't applied for DLA or the 2 year old funding which in our LA means we can't access any additional SEND funding. That means I'm paying for someone to come in when he does so he has one to one support and am losing money on having him with us.

I would not be able to do this for another child as it would simply not be viable.

👏👏👏

100%. The country keeps voting for this.

My mum runs her own preschool and has done for the past 28 years. She always had 30-35 children on her books, she currently has 20 and is not taking anymore on at all due to the additional needs that 2/3 of the children that attend have. It is not fair on the staff that are paid low wages due to crappy government funding to take on any more children let alone more with additional needs. There is no support for nursery settings to help with the influx of additional needs children.
So I’s be glad that the nursery have been upfront that your child may not be receiving the care that he needs so that you can find somewhere that can.

Do you know how much evidence is needed for DLA? Why don’t you offer to help them with the forms? Many decent SENCOs do.

They probably need the evidence from you!

Have you approached the specialist teaching service? Thats also your responsibility

Have been reading and taking in everyone's points.

Firstly, I definitely DON'T want to send him here. I am in no way suggesting I still want them to take him on after this.

Secondly, to see it spelled out so bluntly to be honest I am stunned, but maybe I am naive to the state of the childcare system.

Thirdly, I don't want to discuss my son's potential ND here, it's complex and v subtle but we are in talks with GP and HV and currently monitoring and keeping a diary which is all I mentioned to the nursery. In fact my exact words were "I suspect some ND but I am willing to be proved wrong, will be interesting to hear what the girls (employees) pick up on" - thats it!

When they first made an enquiry, I asked about DLA and they understandably said they did not have the bandwidth to tackle it. I liaised with the other professionals involved in an effort to see how we could support the family and they offered to fill out forms with the family but were also turned down.

Before he started, I contacted the Early Years team and even though he's only been with us for a few weeks, we've managed to arrange 3 different professionals who have already come out to see him.

I don't really appreciate the insinuation that we're not behaving as "decent SENDCOs" when we're doing everything we can and at a significant cost to the nursery.

So you’d like an award for doing what you’re supposed to be doing?

So he’s only been with you a few weeks and you’re questioning why the family haven’t yet filled out the forms? Give them a chance!

If you’ve had the professionals come out to assess him at nursery then you should be getting support from the LA.

Which council is it? As I’ve never heard of needing to have 2 year funding or DLA to access support as most children will not have either at this age.

DLA is rarely given to children at this age unless they have a diagnosed disability

Not an award but not a dig either!

The family have no intention of applying for DLA. They were asked by some of the other professionals involved over the summer to apply and declined, and more recently have declined again last week. It it entirely within their right not to do so, and I understand why they don't feel they can take on anything else at the moment, but it does make it harder for us.

We've helped other families apply for DLA for children aged 2 before and they've been successful.

I'm simply pointing out that while we're able (and happy!) to support and provide a place for this child, if there was another child in similar circumstances who turned up today wanting a place, we would not be able to offer them one as it would not be viable. Aside from financially, we also don't have any other members of staff to draw upon so would need to go through recruitment etc which would take time. That is not out of malice or discrimination but a reflection of the barriers we'd face.

This is normal life for children with SEND.

But, as you have nothing diagnosed, DC is developmentally on track and they just have 'quips', which is true of all 2 year olds ND or NT, then I would look elsewhere and in that instance not raise concerns. I would instead focus on what support they give new starters to help them settle as it sounds like your DC didn't settle well at their previous establishment. I would also ask about their procedures around SEN.

Also keep in mind that the shit show that is the extended free hours scheme has thrown a lot of nurseries into financial turmoil. If I owned one I would be exceptionally cautious right now.

Op says he's developmentally on track but just had some "odd quips" (whatever they are - quirks?)
He's two. It doesn't sound bloody obvious to me.

Yes in all fairness you probably can’t blame the nursery as it’s the government that have decimated this sector with lack of funding and support.

It should be a national scandal.

And unfortunately it is the way of things for parents of children with SEN. It’s extremely depressing and you’ll face a lot of similar shit from the likes of the uninformed posters on this thread and discrimination everywhere you turn ☹️

Going against the grain here OP. I think this is really awful of the nursery and discriminatory. I assume they haven't had any in depth discussion with you about what your son's needs actually are - all you have said is you suspect he may be neurodiverse. That in no way actually implies that he is going to need a lot of additional support.

I do actually think that this is discriminatory.

I know they are a private business, etc., but it's appalling practice and it's ableist - they don't even know what he needs and they haven't asked (going by your posts so far).

It's understandable if you have said he is disabled and needs XYZ which they can't provide - but they have just dismissed him because you mentioned the words 'potentially neurodiverse' (and SO many children fall under that definition!)

I'm not sure what you can do, but it's terrible.

I didn't see OP saying that he was professionally assessed or that they had a conversation about what his actual needs might be (if any).

What I am reading is that the nursery simply saw the words 'potentially neurodiverse' and said no without asking further questions.

Horrendous. Not every child who is neurodiverse needs a lot of extra support.

I was in a similar position. They're being honest that they do not think they will be able to manage and that they already have kid's with needs. If your child was there and they took on children that caused them to struggle to provide sufficient care, how would you react?

They're being responsible.

It's not easy having a child that needs extra support. It may not be forever, but at the same time when people are honest and tell you they don't think they can support your child - and it's a private business - I think you all you can do is respect their position and capabilities.

I agree with a few other replies in that you should not have mentioned the possible ND. You've shot yourself in the foot there.

Disappointing but it's done now. I think you've shot yourself in the foot and made out that DS would require additional support when there's no real reason to have done so. It's not unusual for a just-2yo child to struggle on starting preschool with mostly older children, especially if he's the oldest/only child at home. And they all have quirks, toddlers are little weirdos! Find another nursery and just see how he gets on.

C

I know it's frustrating for you, but why on earth would you WANT your child to go there when they've already told you they don't have the support for him?

Also, you 'suspect' your 2 year old is neurodiverse? Get it confirmed properly. The nursery have probably read your email about your self diagnosis and realised you'd be a flipping nightmare.

It is not 'horrendous' to not want to take a child you don't know if you can support.

You really need to open your eyes and look around you if you think this is 'horrendous'.

Unfortunately this is the state of early years childcare at the moment and it is only going to get worse with most children going onto funded hours. Nurseries are really struggling to get enough qualified staff and the more SEND children they have the more specialist staff they need. Childcare settings do not want to discriminate but they have ratios and safeguarding requirements to adhere to and if they cannot physically manage the needs of X amount of SEND children then they have to turn them away. It is not right at all but it is not the nursery's fault.

It is horrendous that they haven't had the conversation to see what his actual support needs are. They have seen the word 'neurodiverse' (not even diagnosed, just a potential) and simply said no. That is discriminatory. They don't know what he actually needs.

Or they’ve seen high likelihood of being more demanding than the average family, know they’ve already got a couple of those and don’t have capacity for any more - and opted out.

Private businesses don’t have to provide a universal service

If you’re likely to be wanting more input than the standard ratios allow for - then you may want to look for a childcare setting that provides that. Some nurseries do, and most child minders do.

You say he is with a childminder atm - why are changing him to nursery ?