What happens when u don’t have a “village” to raise children

[WhatsMyUsername89]

I appreciate I’m going to sound like a moany old witch, but I just need an area to vent.

we have DD - 2yo, both sets of grandparents live 8-10 min drive away.

I work 3 days a week, however have compressed 4 days worth of work into these hours. So work 11hr days 8:30-7:30.

the other 2 days in the week I have DD!

Last week DD had Hand Foot & Mouth so I had to take days off work, I agreed this with DH because I earn considerably less the financial hit of me taking time off is less than if he did.

I’ve been booked into having a very painful wisdom tooth removed today (last minute appointment) but I have to work. I had so much time off last week I feel cheeky saying I need MORE time off for this.
But I can’t change it to the days I don’t work???? Because I can’t take my 2 year old.

we have no help from family at all, despite both sets of grandparents (neither work) always saying “we will help out always” but funnily when we ask they always have a reason why they can’t.

DH works long hours & is the main earner, we have found with the way things are going in terms of cost of living we can’t afford him taking time off.

so I just feel so stuck, I hear of friends saying “oh my mum/dad/sibling had my child so I can get nails done” and I feel so envious, I can’t even get any support for getting to a doctors/dentist appointment. (I’m very happy for my friends that they are surrounded by helpful - but I feel jealous)

How on earth do you get anything done when you have NO help.

also even if I had this bloody tooth out I’m going to be in pain for days while looking after a toddler and trying to work.

i feel so fed up, but also feel like such a little cow moaning about something that is SUCH a blessing. I’m blessed to have a job, have a beautiful Daughter, a loving husband & access to healthcare.

About I’m frustrated :(

Selfish generation ? Bit of a sweeping statement! I am in my 60s , worked for nearly 40 years and help to look after my DGC but is it selfish to say - actually no , I want to go out with friends, go to the gym or simply sit on my backside and read a book ?

What's going to happen when your DC has their own children? You and your DH will probably still be working - presumably you'll drop everything then to babysit for them?
Grandparents generally aren't retired and itching to leap up and rush to look after their grandchildren (much as they'd like to). People between 40 and 60 - the demographic of most grandparents of young children are still working.
Will you be ready whenever DD has a child to stop your job and be ready to babysit for her children? And expect her to do the same for her grandchildren?
I wouldn't want my DDs to spend a large part of their lives waiting to babysit.

Hopefully the next generation will be lovely and unselfish and give up working and having their own plans so they can be available to provide child care (even after they too have done all the terribly hard work of bringing up their own children - I mean: the other 2 days in the week I have DD! Yikes! Cruel and unusual punishment indeed, looking after your child, it seems.)
So I hope your pension plans are good, Op, so you can give up work when your DD gets pregnant.

You manage OP, and honestly it gets easier the older they get (I mean I say that but I'm still running around after teenagers!)
We have never lived near family, so have always had to manage.
I have a network of friends that will help in an emergency. Years ago when they were in nursery - one of the nursery workers was so lovely she agreed to have my eldest if I went into labour with my youngest (which she did). When my dad was dying 5 months later, the nursery fit my eldest in every day (I think he was 3 days a week then) so I could travel with DC2 and stay with my dad until the end. I did childcare swaps with another friend when DC1 started school, so neither of us had to pay for wraparound every day.
It has meant that H and I never got away together. In fact the first and only time we ever went for an overnighter was when DC1 was 10 - he was on a school trip, and DC2 was on a sleepover.
There is no point though in being envious of what other people can do. It is what it is.

It's something I've thought a lot about. I'd love to be able to help my children. I'd hate for them to be in the situation that we're in. My parents and MIL were in receipt of pensions long before my children were born, we certainly won't be in that situation before we're 70 if we carry on as we are. I'm maxing out mortgage and pension payments so that I'll be in the most flexible position possible as regards finances, hopefully being able to work less hours so can be available to help early as much as I can. Downsizing to help with house deposits and staying close by is something I also consider. Long maternity leaves and SAHParenting are not a reality in my world so being able to provide support that I didn't have would be a privilege.

@cardibach I do think that generations have a shared experience so in many cases are shaped similarly by the world they live in at the time. There is a reason we talk about generational demographics, it's not for nothing. Of course I see many GPs at the school gates but they tend to be younger than my parents generation.

I hear you, it’s rough! Both mine and husband’s parents live in our home country and we don’t get to see them nearly enough so, while they’d happily watch our kids for us to go out, when we see them I want to spend time with them! I can’t really leave with friends as one of mine has complex health issues and it gets really frustrating at times feeling like the pressure is all on me (I’m self employed and juggle the baby whole WFH as DH needs to work long hours). Of course in an emergency we’d work something out but time off parenting for frivolous (or even non Frivolous things) just isn’t going to happen.
it will get easier though, I promise. My youngest is just a toddler but my older kids are all at school full time so I’m gradually feeling the strain ease somewhat. Once littlest goes to pre school I may even manage a couple of hours a week!

Are you saying that he’ll take annual leave to have a ‘mental health day’ but wouldn’t use his annual leave to look after an ill child? Plus he can’t take unpaid leave to look after an ill child as he’s the higher earner, meaning you have to take the time off instead? It’s a bit confusing from your posts.

I also wonder if you are able to take a days leave for a ‘mental health day’ where you can relax and have zero responsibility for childcare (cynically, I suspect not).

We have no family nearby so I do have sympathy with you. We managed it by accepting that we’d have to use annual leave / flexitime for doctor or dentist appointments while DD was in childcare or at school. We also both chose to work in flexible jobs to make things easier, though this has meant lower income (public sector jobs).

We rarely go out as we can’t get a babysitter. Other parents we know have family support so don’t need reciprocal babysitting - I don’t like to ask if we can’t repay them in some way. DD’s best friends mum had helped out a couple of times (taking DD to school when we had to leave early to attend a funeral), but again I felt awkward to ask.

But you do help with your grandchildren? What lots of us who don’t have grandparents who want to help is that we’d love some back up for health appointments, maybe to babysit occasionally and to have a good relationship and take grandchildren out sometimes. We don’t mean regular childcare in the week, I’d be grateful for one day or evening a month. My parents and inlaws are mid 60s and don’t work. Like many of their generation they retired in their 50s with decent pensions. If they had wanted to stay close to us and help occasionally they could have done. We’re now putting a lot into our pensions and savings in the hope that we can retire early enough to help our DC, it won’t be as young as they did as pensions nowadays are a lot worse than they had, but we’re doing our best.

We live in a different country to both sets of grandparents and all other family. We made a good group of friends, offer favours and ask for them when we need them. We went round and met our new neighbours - two of which are unsuitable to ask for help with the kids but one was happy to take a spare key for us and be put on the list to collect the kids from nursery in an emergency. We offered the same to her too. We take equal time out of work if we can’t ask friends, and very occasionally pay for a sitter (though they are so expensive that we probably only do this 1-2 times a year). The village doesn’t just “appear”, you’ve got to work for it and give as well as receive.

'Village' does not have to mean family.
Do you not have friends who would help out occasionally in an emergency - at least minding your child while you go to the dentist?
Pay a teenager to act as a babysitter - we do this with our neighbour's daughter and she is a lovely girl who we have got to know really well.

My mum and I found that when we were nursing my gran in the last stages of life, we had to build our own village as family weren't interested. But we had one. It was just not people who shared our DNA.

The fertility rate across the EU has dropped from 2.37 in 1970 to just 1.6 today.

In the UK it’s 1.56 - among native born UK women it’s about 1.49 compared to 2.0 for foreign born women in the UK. Basically the population of Europe is going to shrink massively without continued high net immigration in the coming decades. Shrinking economy or huge net migration is the choice facing politicians, so the vast majority will choose the latter.

I would ask the grandparents in this situation.
Other options are pay for extra nursery session or a babysitter, husband takes time off, ask a friend. If you don’t have any friends that can help then now is the time to start building that village so you can ask favours and reciprocate. It doesn’t happen overnight and takes work but is definitely worth it in the long run.

@Overthebow i was responding to the poster who claimed we are a “ selfish generation”

@Mylovelygreendress we'll be working for 50+ years, I'm 20 years into my working life and have another 30+ to go. Had to put off having children until career was stable and house bought, and had enough for the 2nd mortgage payment aka daycare bill. All of my friends are the same, I'm late 30s and one of the youngest mothers at school. Doing my best to foster a village but working full time and trying to do what's best for your children there's just no time left over. If you're looking after your GC at all then I know that even if they don't realize it you are making a world of difference to your children and grandchildren's lives.

Something that strikes me is that people who were brought up with a lot of input from their grandparents seem to expect their parents to 'pay it forward' and are then disappointed when they don't. Those of us who were brought up with no input from grandparents are frequently suprised that help is available. We expect what we get from our parents to mirror what they got from our grandparents. It doesn't work like that.
I don't think there is one reason for this. Maybe some people are just "takers" in life. Maybe those with loads of help don't realise how difficult things are. OTOH one person I know who complains their parents don't help enough moved abroad from the parents before kids, and I don't think realises how much they have aged. Another I know who gets no help I suspect the parents disapprove of some of their choices (not any kind of "ophobia" just plain disapproval)

my mum would fly over from a different Country to help me any time i need it!! I couldn't cope without her sometimes!!

when my daughter fractured her foot when she was 2 my mum got on a flight and was with me a few days later and stayed with her while we went back to work!

She will be here in advance of my elective c section for my second child and looking after us for a month!

My MIL on the other hand can't even remember my daughters name and couldn't give a shit about spending time with her / helping out! thats fine too her choice

But we spend very little time with her and none of her kids are going to look after her when she's older as they've all distanced themselves from her!

MY parents on the other hand - i will do everything to help them / look after them when older as we are all super close!

I don't know how people cope in emergencies without help tbh!!

nursery is only 8 -6

Overthebow

My parents and inlaws are mid 60s and don’t work. Like many of their generation they retired in their 50s with decent pensions. If they had wanted to stay close to us and help occasionally they could have done. We’re now putting a lot into our pensions and savings in the hope that we can retire early enough to help our DC, it won’t be as young as they did as pensions nowadays are a lot worse than they had, but we’re doing our best.

If they had wanted to stay close to us and help occasionally they could have done.

So they didn't want to?
Was it because they sensed you resented them and their lifestyle, skipping about with their pensions (at 50? Maybe not great pensions then) and you only valued them as a source of child care?
Because I'm very keen to be close to my DC and can't imagine why I, their father and their in laws would choose not to be close to them.
That's quite a few people to not want to be close to you.

@Fupoffyagrasshole the scary thing is we don't either! I remember having bronchitis and pneumonia when I worked part time with a 1 and 3 yo. I dropped them at the childminders when I was ill on my working days but was so worried about what I would do on my non working days. I was in no state to care for children, breathing was too painful.
It turns out childminders can go over ratios in emergencies citing continuity of care for the children. My husband could also take leave but I was really worried - would he need to take leave every time I was ill? Of course I didn't get as ill as that very often in my whole life, the next time they were 8 and 10 which is a different situation entirely - they can prepare their own food, don't need help toileting, risk assess appropriately (with reason!)

THIS! People misunderstand 'it takes a village' all the time, don't they?

We don't have anyone who can watch our child, other than paid childcare. But we don't lack a village.

The village is the people around us that form part of his social experience and life, with whom he builds relationships. The checkout operator we always make a beeline for who chat to him, our local librarian, his hairdresser, the ladies in the chemist... these are all our village. They all make time to stop and chat with my kid and give him the opportunity to have a conversation or a laugh. They are our village and I feel like they have no idea how important they are to us. We do tell them though!

Also, it's really not fair to put that on someone. Just because someone was raised with lots of input from their own grandparents, that doesn't mean they then owe that help to their children and grandchildren! Everyone is different and has different goals and desires and relationships. It's funny how people act as though their parents owe them childcare.

Have you asked PIL or your parents for the exact date of the appointment and they said no? Could you get an appointment for when your husband is home to watch DD? Many of us have this situation and we just have to make it work

The misuse of this term angers me unreasonably.

IABU

I may be wrong but I always thought that the term 'it takes a village to raise a child' meant that there were 'people to teach, people to play, people to grow food, people to cook, people to advise, people to read, people to advocate, people to befreind'.

Not necessarily 'people to do childcare'

Yes, it does.

And people to support the parents too. Which doesn't mean offering free childcare. It can be any support. I certainly have friends who are quick to offer a listening ear or guidance or advice when it comes to parenting who I would never ask to babysit (nor would they offer). I do resent the insinuation that if you haven't got anyone around to offer free childcare you lack a village. We have nobody to offer childcare other than nursery, and we have an extremely strong village.

Up until dd was 8 we lived in another country to my parents and 2 hours from my dh's family. Dh either took a few hours off if I needed to be somewhere or a friend would have dd. We did quite a bit of childcare for either other. If you don't have a village you have to make one.