To be so angry that people like this are in charge of SEND budgets

[Dalmatron]

Has anyone seen the thread on twitter/X about the Warwickshire Councillors at the scrutiny panel for SEND spending?

I am so angry!

Some quotes:
(Talking about institutions) "They had better ways of dealing with them at that time. Let's go back to those ways"
"I don't know what the fix is, I just look back at years gone by those people by whatever means, it was right at the time".
"Is it something in the water?"
"Families are swapping tips to get diagnosed"
"Why are there so many people jumping out with these needs? Where were they when I was at school?"
"Why do so many people have this badge of SEND and special needs?"
"To stop this spend fix the problem at source"
"the plea of a Mother saying Little Willy has ADHD when Little Willy is just really badly behaved & needs some form of strict correction"

How can people like this be in these positions? Why has nothing been done to remove them or apologise? I felt sick watching these clips.

Warwickshire Council thread

Haven’t read beyond the vote - how the fuck does this stand at 36% saying YABU???
What the hell! This is why there’s a problem. Too many fuckwits around who judge struggling parents and far too many who think educating disabled children is a waste of time.
Clearly Warwickshire council is heavy on those sorts.

Why are more children needing a diagnosis to help them to access school - that’s what needs to be investigated. Too many children struggling to cope in a god awful system.

This is it - ‘SEN’ is just a euphemism now for ASD/ADHD/both. It doesn’t really conjure an image of children with Down’s or the multitude of conditions that children used to be born with in quite large numbers before screening and medical termination was introduced. These 2 diagnoses have absolutely skyrocketed and seem to account in themselves for the ‘increase in SEN’. Because we’re not seeing more children with physical disabilities, just neurological/behavioural ones. It’s baffling, and I wish people would acknowledge this so we can start to investigate without accusations of bigotry stopping that from happening. I think future generations will judge us for not investigating this as an urgent priority.

"All those people saying “these children weren’t around when I was at school” - think of the kids at school who were labelled ‘stupid’, ‘naughty’, ‘weird’. Think of the classmates you had who had a sibling who mysteriously didn’t go to school, or didn’t live at home. SEN children have always been there. Their needs were just being ignored."

@PosyPrettyToes

I am thinking back, I remember almost every name of those I went to primary with and many of those in my year at high school. Both large schools.

I really don't recognise what you are saying, I don't know of anyone who's siblings went elsewhere.

I also don't remember anyone who could be classed as obviously SEN, no one who couldn't take part in everything at school, nobody who couldn't behave appropriately in the mainstream (rather strict) classroom etc 🤔

I grew up in a very working class area, some would say deprived. My friend went to the other local school and her experience seemed similar.

Agree @Pleasehelpimexhausted

I work in mainstream FE.

Almost half of all our students 'declare a need' on entry.

I’m the same. I can think of maybe one or two children who were most definitely ASD undiagnosed but not many. I think we can agree that there is a large increase whatever the cause and the level of provision is appalling. Something needs to be done and I don’t think it’s fair to make it the responsibility of LAs who have no money to spend.

I remember children with SEN but not in the form that it seems to be the most common now (ASD, non verbal, in many cases aggression). I remember a little boy with cerebral palsy and sight loss, he was the younger brother of a friend and he went to special school. There was a little girl at primary (still a friend now) whose bio mum was an alcoholic so she had FAS and accompanying mild learning difficulties. She had TA support and now works full time and lives in her own flat with a little oversight from her adoptive parents. Another boy had dyslexia and had help with reading/writing but beyond that was a completely typical child. And a little girl at Brownies who had a rare musculoskeletal condition and was in an electric wheelchair, she sadly passed away several years later I heard.

So yes, I remember children with special needs. But the profile seems to have changed from a variety of predominantly physical disabilities with some accompanying learning difficulties, to almost exclusively autism/adhd/both.

I hear you.

We weren’t all misbehaving at the back of the classroom in the 1970s/80s… a lot of us were hiding in plain sight and were simply too overwhelmed and terrified to do anything other than quietly comply with the horrifying school regime at the time, breaking down at home / when we went to university / when we started work etc. (I’m recently diagnosed at the age of 51). A lot of us did really well at school academically. I think it’s this assumption - that the only people with SEN years ago were those who were badly behaved - which means people assume that there are loads more of us now than there used to be, when actually there have always been loads of us!

also, don’t forget that a lot of us managed to have a relationship and to produce SEN children… and so the cycle continues …

I have a lot more to say on this - as both an ND parent of ND kids and as someone who works in a school - I’ll try to get back to this thread.

But I can tell you exactly where my sons SEN/ASD come from, it's genetic as ASD/Dyslexia and Dyspraxia run all through my family. My gran actually had 9 kids, the two youngest were diagnosed with dyslexia, three of her grandkids have diagnoses but there are a lot of the older kids that I think are undiagnosed - four at least- and I expect a number of other grandkids too. In fact I suspect gran was also ND as she had a couple of the frequently co morbid disorders ie anxiety, OCD.

I don't know how this helps though? Knowing that genetics has led to many of our family being ND? What do you suggest? We all be sterilized?

IHigh Needs Block refers to funding for special schools and support through EHCPs.

I suppose people didn't need the education we have now and the expectations

They left school at 14 and there were jobs that could be done such as factory work for example

It's not mis diagnoses.

It's awareness and education rightly spreading and people that struggled for many years working out why.

These councils and teachers and civil Servants and to some degree medical professionals need to catch up or shut up.

https://www.change.org/p/demand-warwickshire-county-council-apologize-for-inflammatory-remarks-on-sen-policy?recruitedbyyid=818cc6f0-c462-11ee-b78d-e38e238e8d2f&utmsource=shareepetition&utmmedium=instagramm_story

A Warwickshire parent has started a petition demanding an apology for the inflammatory remarks.

People often seem puzzled why there are more children struggling in school.

When I was at school 30/40 years ago there was very little visual clutter in the classroom. No smart boards. Apart from the very early years the lessons were more formal, no chatting.
I could barely enter my son’s primary school classroom - it was a complete assault to the senses, no wonder all these children are finding it difficult! It’s really not rocket science.
Add in the pressure to perform, et voila, perfect storm.

It is definitely not a unique issue

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/amp/councillor-resigns-from-post-after-comments-on-children-with-288016/

But if schools are a sensory overload then it stands to reason that other places are as well. There’s a general sensory assault on babies now from birth - massive flashing light up toys, endless baby ‘TV’ programs, baby cinema, baby sensory where newborns are surrounded by lava lamps and light up ball pools. Recent research shows even a small amount of screen time in the early years (under 2) massively massively increases the risk of sensory processing disorder. We can’t blame schools entirely when the effects are surely replicated elsewhere?

I think that a big reason for the perceived rise in SEND is because until recently, the diagnostic criteria for ADHD and ASD were based solely on how they presented in boys, so girls just went undiagnosed.

Sounds like the dip shat who is in charge of our LA send dept.

When I was kid, you didn't need a ehcp to get speech therapy.

Now you can't get speech therapy until your at school. With a ehcp! Go figure.

Early intervention? It doesn't exist.

My son didn't talk until he was seven. No speech therapy for him. It's such a puzzle isn't it? He is at a 60k pa school. Imagine the savings if he had speech therapy as a toddler

I'm 100% sure my 78 yo dad is autistic

He has no friends
Hates social events even with close family
Drinks before a social event to cope.

He is extremely happy in his own company
He is extremely talented at fixing things and building. Working with his hands

Many other traits.

He left school at 15 and went away to work as a metal worker so working with his hands. He was very good at this and earnt well.

He wasn't forced into education for years.

Wasn't pushed into something that didn't suit him.

My dd is very Much Like Him and has an asd diagnosis.

She dropped out of school
In sixth form
Burnt out. She now works hard in a creative setting and is starting to come
Alive again.

She struggles in social situations too but copes.

I absolutely believe it's our environment that's wrong we are basically apes after all.

We need open space
Less tech
Nature
Good foods not laced with sweetness and chemical.
Careers That are accessible to creative people
Careers that dont require a degree or Schooling till 18 to access.

I'd like to see a farm
Type school in every town
A school With art and animals and Design and tech at it's heart
PE would Be trampolining dance. Gym yoga and not enforced
Maths and English and science would
Be taught but other subjects more child led and based on interests and exploration rather than curriculum

In a land of fairness that's my dream 💭

I'm pretty sure that my Dad (78) would be diagnosed with ASD. He had a good career as an accountant, made lots of money, would not have got through any modern style interviews but back then it was all about technical ability not people skills.

He made partner to do technical stuff at a high level, others did the client getting touchy feely stuff...

There's much less opportunity to just be good at what you do, mostly you have to sell it too, which can be tough.

But at the same time Prenatal testing means that there are fewer children born with eg Downs Syndrome than there were a generation or more ago. I don't know stats on birth injuries etc but imagine they may well be less common too due to more C sections.

Nope. There's also been a rise in the number of people with PMLD (profound and multiple learning disabilities) over time. These are definitely people any person would view as disabled. Estimate for number of adults with PMLD in 2009 was 16,000 and prediction by 2026 is 22,000. That's a 37% increase. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Estimated-Number-of-Adults-with-PMLD-in-England-2009-2026_tbl1_237636857

I can't find easy data for down syndrome over time, but it has also increased rather than decreased as you asserted. Between 1979 and 2003, the number of babies born with Down syndrome increased by about 30%. Futhermore, it is not just percentage of people being born with down syndrome that needs considering, but also life expectancy. In 1960, on average, persons with Down syndrome lived to be about 10 years old. In 2007, on average, persons with Down syndrome lived to be about 47 years old. Therefore the number of people with Down syndrome requiring support has increased, as the average length of their educational experience has increased.

Yes, there has been an increase in ASD and ADHD, and especially in speeh, language and communication needs (the label often given to children who schools and/or parents can't get referred for diagnosis or who are on 3-year waiting lists). But that is not the whole reason. Modern medicine is fantastic, but it does lead to increased need for SEND support.

Of course. Life is far more difficult and full on than it ever was.
It’s a pity that schools, full of child experts, are a large part of that problem, rather than somewhere children feel safe and relaxed, ready to learn.
In many cases it’s school where the much needed escape, or at least adjustments, isn’t allowed to be an option unless the child has a diagnosis or EHCP - it’s all very well people moaning about the rise in diagnoses and diagnosis hunting parents, but the problem is the denial of support whilst simultaneously gatekeeping it and making it more and more inaccessible.

People like your dad (and my dad, and probably myself too) would probably not have needed very expensive interventions though even if they had been diagnosed. My ND children don't cost more to educate than others - they only need minor accommodations like fidget toys, access to a quiet room and not having to do PE.

So I don't think it's necessarily those who wouldn't have been diagnosed 20+ years ago who are driving the costs up. (I say that without judgement) There must also be a rise of those with complex support needs, who would have been diagnosed then also.

@ReceptionTA

They can apologise on their knees but unfortunately that won't educate them on sen.

I think they should have to do a basic course on it and engage properly with school to see it in progress.

Whilst this is shocking I'm not shocked I've heard similar in eduction settings.

Ignorance is rife.