We can have a Tory government and Brexit or we can have the NHS. Which do you choose?

[verdantverdure]

YANBU I'm not a millionaire so I chose the NHS.

YABU I am a millionaire so I don't need the NHS and I choose Brexit and Tory government.

There's never been waste on the scale of the last few years.

Mainly because it's not waste. It's corruption and fraud.

It's the government setting things up for the private sector to get our country's money in return for substandard goods and services at stupidly inflated prices.

The asylum system is one of the set ups they use.

The reason Tory donors such as Serco are making record profits out of housing refugees is that the playing field has been rigged to guarantee record profits.

1. Government policies have hugely increased the number of asylum seekers.

1. Government policies maximise the amount of time asylum seekers have to stay in asylum accommodation.

More people multiplied by more time = more of our money going into the bank accounts of Tory donors.

Immigration is the solution to top heavy populations.

The lack of it is why Japan has slipped behind Germany to the fourth largest economy in the world.

No party is reversing Brexit and both will struggle with the NHS

UK is lumbered with Brexit that no one really wants anymore but politicians are still too timid to say anything.

I’d favour a European model for healthcare having seen it in action. Please not the American system which I’ve also used to give birth, twice!

I'm somewhat inclined in this direction. There is something I really love about teh way that systems like the NHS were concieved, in terms of free at point of service healthcare for all.

But the idea of what constitutes necessary health care has changed so much, technology has changed so much. And I think we have to say, that the experiment shows that people's sense of what they are entitled to in terms of health provision, and how they should use the health system, has itself changed as a result of the way the NHS works. You can see similar things in other countries with similar systems.

The French system, or something like it, seems more effective, and that's really what we need to look at. What works, not what meets some idealist criteria.

Indeed, the Tories did promise us a better NHS after Brexit.

But, they were lying.

12 hour waits definitely were a thing. I well remember as a child for one being on a sodding trolley for about 28 hours. And the news then was all about people being left on trolleys for long times.

None if this shit is new. Stick around long enough you'll see the same (almost exactly the same) headlines. Every winter, OMG the NHS is failing. People dying (of the flu, a big killer) people not getting drs appointments blah blah. Nothing changes.

Still I will vote my way, you vote yours. Thats the way of elections.

Somebody will reverse Brexit.

Obviously.

Somebody has to.

We just don't know who it will be yet.

Propaganda

(Is the short answer)

No.

We need to unfuck it.

The last time they were in they borrowed money to fund it, which is now hobbling the current NHS.

I don't think that will work this time.

Labour has a lot to answer for in that, and also because any time anyone talks about a real structural overhaul (to something like a French model) they freak out and make it politically impossible.

Yep PFI won’t be back. We’re still paying it now

You'd like me to talk about the political issues that affect all of our lives without being political at all?

The NHS is not simply fucked due to a lack of money - it gets tons of it - it's fucked for many, many reasons.

Once it's gone we can have something much more sensible, like many other European countries have.

You think this because.....?

No party is talking about this, and the EU looks to be going into rather a period of crises.

Which of those countries spend less than us on healthcare would you say?

Because Brexit is a millstone around our neck and our economy can’t stand to lose 5% off GDP AND endure the inflation caused by all the extra Brexit costs AND manage on lowered tax revenue because of lowered trade volumes, AND cope with the lowered trade volumes themselves , AND the cost of subsidising industries to stay here in a broken Brexit-hobbled economy, AND all the businesses going bust because of the Brexit-hobbled economy.

But mostly because we live in a democracy and the majority don’t want Actual Brexit, they wanted the Fantasy Brexit they were promised.

Actually most of us don’t want any kind of Brexit at all.

This is the Get The Tories Out election.

The next one will be the Get Brexit Undone election.

I love how many people think that the NHS wasn't in dire straits under Labour (because let's face it OP it is VERY clear you are a Labour supporter). I had no qualified midwife available for the birth of DS because there was a severe staff shortage. That was 2008.
I also love how many people think throwing money at it will help.
No idea what Brexit has got to do with anything. What's done is done with that one. It's not like those that voted for us to leave have realised it was a stupid mistake, they will never see it.

@TempestTost - so it's Labour's fault? Not the Party in power for 14 years? The Party who created the NHS...🤔

That’s interesting,

Do you have a link for the timeline of the abolition of VAT, car tax, council tax, National Insurance, and the taxes on gambling, alcohol and cigarettes etc?

It wasn't in the dire straits it is now, not by any stretch of the imagination. Waiting lists were the best they'd ever been. To suggest otherwise is wrong.

Brexit costs our country billions every month.

So it’s always going to come up when people say “we can’t afford” something.

Brexit makes it harder to pay for the things we as a country used to be able to afford.

Kind of like how the £500 a month the Tories “Fiscal Event” added to our mortgages makes it harder for households to pay for things we used to be able to afford.

Ummm... I hate Brexit and I hate the Tories, I hope they're wiped out and the party breaks up and never again darkens our national doorways.

But - Brexit had cross-party support. Labour has wisely stayed quiet on it but to my mind, Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour party hold a huge amount of responsibility for it, their half-arsed remain campaigning was a decisive factor in the outcome. Plenty of left-wing people hate the EU because they see it as capitalist and overbearing.

The NHS is a complicated beast and I wouldn't be averse to some kind of privatisation if it meant better healthcare, so long as it stayed affordable. We always hold up the example of the US but other social democratic countries have privatised systems that function well.

I hope Labour get in and make the country better and fairer, and move closer to Europe. However there's no magic fix - it's that kind of thinking that gave us Brexit in the first place.

I was thinking of something I saw on TV news a while ago with an old lady waiting standing up leaning against the wall, and then she sat on the floor to wait. I bet she'd have loved a trolley to lie on.

Another five years…

All those polls (and threads) and not a jot on shifting it for this GE