Asking employer to cover childcare costs

[Totupthenumberspls]

I’ve been asked to go on a business trip for a week, is it unreasonable to ask the company to pay the incremental childcare costs?

You mention you don't need to be there.... Personally if it was for something that i felt wasn't relevant to me, or my role, I'd raise that with my manager stating that it will bring no business benefit for me to attend & in addition severely impact my childcare arrangements therefore i'd want to ascertain if they consider it critical to my role & performance.

If it is critical - then i'd broach if there was the ability for me to attend remotely - via web link, zoom, teams or other method - does it HAVE to be onsite?

If it HAS to be onsite - then id ask if there was the possibility they arrange that onsite closer to my location; i am unable to travel for anything more than overnight (insert whatever you are willing to do).

Actually there is actually recognition within employment law professionals that the majority of childcare falls to women. That’s why HR prefer to negotiate no travel with mothers with childcare responsibilities. You know, rather than have a sex discrimination case to defend at tribunal. It might say some travel required in her contract. It depends on whether 10 days could be seen as a reasonable request, because for most that would fall outside of ‘some travel’. Is there precedent for her work sending her away for 10 days at a time? Lots of factors to consider - from an employment legislation point of view, rather than stompy have nots on this thread. It doesn’t matter that you don’t like it, it’s something her employer needs to consider.

I think that you are lucky @IvyIvyIvy and I’m betting that it’s a Scandinavian company ? Having said that I wouldn’t leave my baby/ child with someone they or I didn’t know - although appreciate that’s my view.
@Totupthenumberspls getting back to your question - you says upthread your contract was pretty wide - requiring you to work in different locations as job required? If so that means they can require you to go in a course and you’ve been lucky this far it hasn’t been a requirement before . Never once in my career has any employer offered compensation or even asked me if I can do a business trip- because it was expected of me to do my job.

Last time I checked, being a dog owner wasn’t covered in the equality act.

You can give a dog away. To anyone at all. Drop it off at a ‘rescue’ because you don’t want it any more. You can’t with a child.

There are boarding kennels for dogs (which anyone at all who wants to can set one up without any qualification or DBS check). The same can’t be said for children. Unless I’m mistaken and we have child kennels now.

It’s nothing like having a child. I’m guessing you have a dog and think it’s a furry little baby. It’s not.

There is specific employment legislation, and work policies all around parental responsibility. I’m yet to see one setting out the legal rights of dog owners in the workplace. Although some idiot will probably have a test case at tribunal soon.

I think you might not be aware of how good some employment contracts and packages are. The workers who are paid over £200,000 would have this type of expense paid for by the company/their employer.

The workers on less than £50,000 would have to suck it up.

@Littlegoth cripes you’re unpleasant

the discussion is not about legal liability

it Is actually about legal liability. It’s literally about employment legislation and what is a reasonable request from an employer/employee. It could even be about unfair contract terms (and whether terms in her contract are unfair and therefore unenforceable - employers can’t just say ‘well you have to do this, it’s in the contract’. It still has to be reasonable).

Not sure what was unpleasant about the facts I gave in my post. The truth can hurt, I guess.

@Totupthenumberspls I can see your point of view. Whilst I personally don’t think it is the companies responsibility to pay. It wouldn't be unreasonable to explain to the company that you’re hesitant to go/unable to go due to having to pay additional childcare fees. The company can then decide whether or not they want to pay the additional for you to go or not…

OP I'm not sure the employer has to pay your costs.

However, I'm sure you could make it difficult for them to make you go. What if you were too scared to fly, didn't have a passport, didn't feel safe in the country they are sending you to etc? If it was never envisaged at the start of your job that they could send you to Africa, then I doubt they can say you have to go.

However, you might get your card marked as a troublemaker taking this stance - depends how you feel about promotion opportunities/job progression etc?

23 years ago I had to go on a business trip to the UK near my family. My DD was only 2 and I was a single parent. Rather than me flying a parent over to look after her, they paid for her flight and my parents picked her up so I could work.

My contract mentions that occasionally I may be asked to work from a different location (I never have) but that doesn't mean I'd be okay with being sent to Africa for 10 days and my employed DH expected to cover everything.

This is what people are asking the OP when they say - can't your partner do it?

Why should the individual/employee have to switch around their home schedule/routine and be out of pocket to benefit their employer?

Why are so many women on this thread for the 'business? Why do you want the business to succeed at your families expense?

We go to work and are paid in return - it should always be a good working relationship for both parties.

I really wonder what type of places you guys are working in. I'm pleased to work with assertive confident women who absolutely go for theirs in the workplace.

I can see both sides. Professionally, I don't think asking about childcare costs will go down well. As others have said, it's this sort of thing that could potentially put employers off hiring women of child-bearing age. Yes, it's wrong - but it is what it is.

Financially, though, as you say, a company would naturally pay for flight, hotels, meals etc on the basis that, if you were not in Africa, these are costs you wouldn't incur. So, by that same logic, if you were here and not in Africa, you wouldn't incur the costs involved in having to pay someone else look after your child. So, for that reason, it should be factored in like any other expenses.

All that being said, if I were in this scenario at work, I'd probably want to demonstrate to my employers a willingness to travel and would suck up the cost.

Effectively it's like asking for a bonus or pay rise, so with that logic it should be paid on the basis that the work the OP does deserves that extra money and should be negotiated on that basis.

The employee's home life or situation is nothing to do with the employer. I'm an employer and I pay people what they're worth for their work. It's not my responsibility to manage their family's finances, choices or lifestyles. The OP has signed a contract stating travel when required; they could have chosen to negotiate childcare costs before signing.

I wouldn't agree to something presented in this way because I would be thinking about my staff that don't have children and it being unfair to them. People with kids cost me more as an employer by default, even without asking for extra, and I already absorb those costs without complaint. However, everyone is on an equal footing when they can pitch for a payrise with evidence from their own work, which is what we encourage.

@moomoomoo27 in not sure I would have got the job if I had started negotiating with my employers about a hypothetical child I may or may not have in the future ….

Are you paid for 5 days but work 4? If you were requested to work on days you're not contracted why wouldn't you see that as over time?

You've never renegotiated your contract terms in the course of your role? Never brought it up as part of a promotion or payrise? You've probably been losing out on a lot.

Always worth re-negotiating annual leave days too.

I posted on this thread the way to work, and now I've finished for the day I've read the replies.

First - OP is being a bit antsy to posters and for that reason I'm a bit meh.

But the principle of the discussion/request is a good one. I found it very hard when my DC were small because i often had to work late (most days) and i did have some inter(continental)national travel. My DH worked split shifts in a restaurant which made morning drop offs ok, but everything else was between me and the childminder (for whom i paid an absolute fortune. I considered it, for the years it was hideously expensive, an investment in my career and our family future.

I sharp elbowed my way up from assistant to senior manager at that company, and the early work i put in, my reliability and willingness to put in the hours/miles/work paid off. The other people with children were all men, and their wives mostly worked around their children, if they worked. That was their family decision (although over the years more than one complained about their lack of career to me, and were "jealous" that i was independent and senior - compared to their jobs.)

What i think? it would be a good recruiting tool if companies would contribute to extra out of pocket expenses like this, on a case by case basis with no assumption that it will always be extended to all employees. Where there is a parent at home? sure, they need to coordinate. Is the employee (OP in this case) really needed on this trip? If not: can they impose this trip on someone else (and not always the childfree/childless and those with no dependants. Also they could offer it to employees with other caring responsibilities. If the company considers the employee valuable, they will offer more inducements/perks.

From OPs POV, she said she's not needed, it won't increase her already negligent promotion prospects and she doesn't want to go, and is unwilling to ask her DH to step up. So there are 2 choices: ask your company to contribute/cover the extra costs (and suggest they review their policies in general about this) or decline the trip.

The reason, i think, some pp say this is why other people don't like working with parents is that they often get landed picking up the slack when little Johhny/Joanna is sick, is in a play, etc. They might want holidays in times when all the parents have booked so they can't. They might have to cover Christmas/Easter because "they have no families". The more men step up and also ask for this perk (to cover extra childcare expenses) the better.

But in this day and age? you will have to be a hugely desirable employee for a private company to stump up this kind of extra support. I'm interested how it ends with OP

But it is the employers problem because they are expecting to be able to send her to Africa for 10 days whilst expecting her husband who also works to pick up the slack.

It's not as though they are sending her to Manchester for a training day.

But it is the employers problem because they are expecting to be able to send her to Africa for 10 days whilst expecting her husband who also works to pick up the slack.

They're not expecting her husband to do anything because, ultimately, they don't care about her childcare costs or complications.

You can bet the M.Ps can claim it on expenses along with everything else.
But to be fair your choice to have kids is a personal choice and it's not the companies responsibility to pay if its stated in your contract that travel is sometimes required.
It's a shame that you feel your DH is being inconvenienced by having to pick up extra childcare duties it's his child that's what you do

Covering childcare isn’t unfair on childless people because the expense comes out of the business, not out of their pay. It’s not like you’re handing the cash to the parents to use as they please, it’s a business expense, same as covering someone’s petrol or hotel costs.

That's a very black and white way of looking at it.

And they will care when OP says no and cites childcare or lack of it as the reason why.

@TylaTiga

Sorry, I wasn’t pointing fingers at you at all, I was just talking generally!

Oh I know! And I agree with your points too.

I would ask, its a long time to be away and they are aware that you have children now ( I am guessing you had maternity leave)

The people saying no are probably repressed by the patriarchy. I bet you men would ask too!!! if you don't ask, you don't get. simple.