A question to all those who think school refusal in schools is increasing due to lazy, enabling parents...

[Edsspecialsauce]

The question I always have is why?
Why would we choose this?
I hear all the time that it's all our fault, it's just parents letting them get away with murder. Enabling their behaviour etc
How come you get families where one sibling is fine in school and the other has to be dragged in screaming?
Why would I choose to spend my whole time in the playground begging?
Why would I choose to be on a final warning at work due to absence?
Why would I choose to be on antidepressants due being completely burnt out after five years of struggling?
I'm a single parent and my DC is disabled. I could probably get benefits and home ed, so why if I'm not bothered about her education am I dragging her through the school gates, crying (I'm often crying too)
Every day, five days a week, for years.

Absolutely @Edsspecialsauce parents angry with each other and feeling defensive is exactly what the govt wants - cheap and vote winning.

you just don’t like it because you gave up. That’s on you. Now I have a job to go to so do enjoy your day.

And there we have it. Demonstration of why so many people are feeling so shit and worried for their children, and guilty about their choices- even people who have been through the situation think that others have failed and given up 🤷‍♀️.

I think it has a lot to do with gaming. Kids are addicted and can't bear the thought of being away from it.

In fairness the fact you have a very genuine case and are suffering hardship becof it doesn't have any impact on whether or not overall rates are increasing because of parents.
The issue is not school refusal, that's always been there, it's the increasing rates....not necessarily of refual but poor atten

I think there are lots of reasons for it.
Partly because kids sat at home when they felt perfectly fine, so they don't understand going to school if not feeling great.
Partly because many don't have the friendship and support groups they need, or they are struggling in class....big discrepancies between those who did learn well in lock down and those who did not.

As a patent I know my resolve is weaker with my second anyway, and covid made me more inclined to believe if she says she is unwell.

In my experience, children have progressive signs that refusal may be an issue in the future and majority of these children are SEN whether formally diagnosed or not. Getting a diagnosis typically requires parents to go private so many children never get a formal diagnosis nor adequate support. Even with a diagnosis, SEN support is patchy between classes even in “good” schools. For a child, school becomes crushingly humiliating when they cannot independently work/cope to a similar level as their peers. At primary school it may be possible to “manage” but once the comforts of having the same teacher /classroom each day is removed, these kids cannot cope without support at home and school. I don’t think primary schools identify or communicate the observations and risk to a childs future attendance with families and I don’t think there is enough communication or records between primary and secondary school so that primary schools are aware of how many of their ex pupils develop issues soon after leaving primary.

Hi, out of interest can I ask what these signs could be ? My ds 9 is now off school after coping well (with support) up until now. He now cannot go into school due to severe anxiety. I didn't think my child would ever be running around the school gates with teachers trying to coax him into school.
He went to school with an asd diagnosis but it's still taken us 4 years to (only just) get an ehcp approved. Now we're going to have to fight to get him into a sen school I believe.

This was an interesting post. Are you able to elaborate on what the dysfunctional environment is? ( genuinely asked, not challenging- and don’t think it is a thread derail). If anything I agree but was interested in an ex teachers view.

I hope it continues for you and she manages to get through the remainder of her education.

We made many sacrifices, ultimately I'd have preferred to be homeless than have a dead child. My son would have succeeded in killing himself if I'd have continued. He'd already tried 4 times by the end. Sometimes we need to parent to safeguard our children. My child was not safe.

Every situation is different and your first post was judgemental. I'm not the only person who felt that way.

Is it really much worse now?

I am mid 40s and can remember a girl in my 1980s primary school class who hardly ever came in (incidentally it turns out she is autistic and is currently homeschooling her 2 autistic children) and lots of children who would be dragged crying from parents in the mornings.

An ex bf was a school refuser throughout primary and secondary. This would have been 80s and very early 90s. His mum was still scarred by the memories of trying (and very frequently failing) to get him in. He failed his exams despite being quite bright and had to retake them all at college in his early 20s.

A friend from secondary/sixth form had such severe anxiety and school refusal that she would be given work to complete at home and allowed to come in for part days. She sat all her exams in school but in a separate classroom.

A couple of the children who walked into school (secondary) persistently missed form time and assembly in favour of rocking up just before the first lesson. This was frowned upon, but they were allowed to go to the front office and get marked in the register, so I am assuming this was not recorded as absence at all.

There were quite a few boys in my year who would routinely miss a couple of days a week throughout secondary. They were generally considered to be 'bad kids' and it was just assumed they'd fail their exams - which I assume they did. One was the child of a local 'hard man' and another the child of a very solidly middle class family. He later fell into heavy drug use and sadly died young. I don't remember much about the others.

We'd all miss weeks or even fortnights for term time family holidays, plus days off for weddings, family gatherings, days out etc. No one seemed to care. Not passing judgement on whether this was a good or bad thing, just that absence was seen as unremarkable.

There are of course a small monority of kids with special needs, and so the following doesn't speak to them. We need a much better system to support children with SEND.

But, for the majority, it often boils down to consistent parenting, early on.

Western parenting is often child centred, with a view that the child should never be upset or uncomfortable. Also very little respect for elders or authority because the parents have "protected" the children to the extent that no one is ever allowed to question or discipline.

So the West has created a generation that has little resilience and cannot cope with not being able to do whatever they want.

By the time kids get onto their teens, of course parents can't force them to go to school. They're too big and also the mentality that they must get their own way drives the kids behaviour.

So yes, it is mostly the fault of parents being too child centred early on.

Thansk that is an excellent post Howdidtheydothat there absolutely must be patterns that are being missed or observed and recognised but not communicated by primary schools. As a mum with no training in any of this I see patterns in what other parents talk about on these boards all the time.

Why did the child the primary thought was maybe dyslexic (but did nothing to help with that) and who also struggled with huge fear about going in every day all through primary, not get flagged to the parents as having some sort of possible ND?

Why did they tell the parents that they themselves were anxious, as if that was the explanation for the problems of an anxious child? Why did they continue to state the child is fine in school, when that quiet amenable child is crying every morning clinging to parents and clinging to adults every break time and is having Jekyll and Hyde huge daily rage breakdowns at home?

Why did the primary school have no professional curiosity or communication with the parents about the many possible causes of these behaviours?

When we trusted the series of teaching professionals who spoke to us in this way, it meant we have actually just wasted years in which we could have been trying to get help. And now we’re in the inevitable full time EBSA from secondary school. Which has damaged my child’s confidence and happiness beyond recognition, as well as my work prospects and our family financial security and all of our health and mental health. There absolutely are patterns to be seen.

Western parenting is often child centred, with a view that the child should never be upset or uncomfortable. Also very little respect for elders or authority because the parents have "protected" the children to the extent that no one is ever allowed to question or discipline.

School refusal is a massive problem in China and other non Western countries.

And Japan, check out the hikikomori's.

@MrsWimpy
My dd hardly ever games
She was overwhelmed and under too much pressure in sixth form with the constant talk of uni and grades and personal statements to carry on. Her heads were not supportive. Wouldn't make reasonable adjustments. This is in a school that were great until sixth form.

Anyway you have proved the point. Such sweeping statements are exactly why the op posted

Absolutely this. I really feel for school leaders and SENCOs who are under so much pressure from OFSTED and staff turnover/retention issues but the fact that so many seemingly don’t notice a repeated pattern here (and instead keep trying the same - ineffective for (possibly undiagnosed) neurodivergent children - techniques to try and manage school-based anxiety) does make you wonder. It does these children a huge disservice not to flag to their parents that there may be an underlying condition. As I was saying to DH only this weekend about DD2’s old primary school - it’s not like they’re going to bother putting any support in place even with a diagnosis so what’s stopping them referring for an assessment, at least the family will have a better understanding?? (This is a school that was so shit at supporting autistic children there was even an article in the Times about it. You’d think that would prompt a rethink but no…).

@Howdidtheydothat your post really hit home to me. My son is only 4 and will start reception in September. He's been going to nursery 2/3 days a week since 18 months old and every drop off is a struggle. When he was 2 it got so bad we were reaching out for advice from nursery, hv, young minds even. There was just no way his level of anxiety about going was on par with any "normal" wobbles at the gate. He once had a meltdown one morning before nursery because a tissue wasn't out in the bin "poply" and I had to physically drag him away from trying to empty the bin to put it back in "his way".

Things have gradually improved and nursery mornings are loads better but any diversion from routine, returns after holidays etc are just awful. People say he's putting it on, he'll snap out of it and similar but they have no idea. I really worry about having to do 5 mornings a week for school and can absolutely imagine school refusal in the future.

He's waiting for an autism assessment after nursery, HV and gp agreed to refer but who knows with the waiting times. I applied for an EHCP in preparation for school but it's been refused on the basis that the nursery are managing him really well (which is true to be fair) and we'll have to re apply if/when he struggles with school.

@EHCPerhaps

When my eldest was suicidal at the prospect of attending a small (one form per year) local primary school what always struck me was why was the assumption that the fact that the child being so anxious to be at school that they would rather be dead, was down to parenting or things going on at home, rather than the issue being at school?

If a child was threatening to kill themselves at the prospect of going home that would cause a major red flag and would be a clear safeguarding issue. But EBSA is treated completely differently, why is that? I raised this with the EWO and the Headteacher, no answer was given.

The other complete nonsense is that forcing a child into an environment that is harmful to them causes resilience. The number of times I was told that my child could not be resilient unless I forced them to go, by both the school and initially CAMHS was shocking.

We still live next door to the primary school in question. My 17 year old is now seen walking happily to college every day and one of his former teacher was quite astonished that he has 100 % attendance and plans to go to university as everyone assumes that outcomes will be bad for children who are not forced into school. The truth is parents have to trust our judgement.

My child gained more resilience by being listened too and working through his trauma than he could ever have gained by being forced into harm. The day he walked to college (after 7 years out of formal school based education) was the proudest day of my life.

Why did they tell the parents that they themselves were anxious, as if that was the explanation for the problems of an anxious child?

This one is the best, why do they fucking think parents are anxious!?

Chicken and egg springs to mind.

Exactly OP. People are so quick to criticise. I have a sen child too who has struggled with elbow wanting to go to school over the years but luckily I’ve always managed to get him in, which is amazing really as he has terrible anxiety, but he’s also a people pleaser. He’s at primary atm but I absolutely know that if I sent him to mainstream secondary that he would become one of those figures; the child who does not go in, and it’s simply because he would not cope in mainstream. My goal is to get him into a special school but there’s so few available so I’ve already made the decision to home school him whilst I fight for a place as I refuse to effect his mental health even more. I feel for you hugely, it is so incredibly hard isn’t it. I’m a single mum as well so it’s all on me and the constant fight to get the right help and support for my son is so mental exhausting.

To reply to the op. My opinion is its better for the government to blame parents because then they can strip more money from schools.
Having qualified teachers. Smaller classes, extra help in thr classroom via TA all cost money the government want to stash in their bank accounts.

What a lazy, ignorant, sweeping statement. Throwaway remarks like this are so unhelpful.

We are talking about kids here with huge levels of anxiety. The wilful misunderstanding of those who don't get the issue is making both kids and parents feel even worse. It's already a traumatic situation for those of us in the thick of it.

I would appeal that outcome.

He is doing well BECAUSE the nursery is putting in measures.

A child shouldn't have to struggle before adjustments are put into place. If you know adjustments are required for him to be able to go then this needs to be formalised.

At the very least make sure nursery properly communicate his needs with the school.

@Fivebyfive2 my school refuser (who is doing mostly fine now in a good school with good support) was like this from the get go at nursery.

and my other dd who doesn’t refuse but doesn’t cope well, she struggled at nursery age too.

there are signs but actually think we don’t have child centred education and we gaslight them instead ‘I see no evidence of bullying’ ‘I saw her smiling she was fiiiine’ ‘of course she’s safe’

lmao at the idea that we are too child centred. Listening to feelings and validating them is not the same as giving them a free pass to game etc.

@lifeturnsonadime

I love this story

@Edsspecialsauce We aren’t all in the same boat though. That’s the issue.

SOME parents just can’t be arsed, some of that is due to their own battles not their child’s.

Everyone then just gets lumped in together as we all can’t be arsed.

COVID and teachers striking certainly hasn’t helped with the age old argument of school is vital, important and to some degree compulsory.