A question to all those who think school refusal in schools is increasing due to lazy, enabling parents...

[Edsspecialsauce]

The question I always have is why?
Why would we choose this?
I hear all the time that it's all our fault, it's just parents letting them get away with murder. Enabling their behaviour etc
How come you get families where one sibling is fine in school and the other has to be dragged in screaming?
Why would I choose to spend my whole time in the playground begging?
Why would I choose to be on a final warning at work due to absence?
Why would I choose to be on antidepressants due being completely burnt out after five years of struggling?
I'm a single parent and my DC is disabled. I could probably get benefits and home ed, so why if I'm not bothered about her education am I dragging her through the school gates, crying (I'm often crying too)
Every day, five days a week, for years.

@lifeturnsonadime I did message the "case handler" to explain and asked for everything to be kept on file/case to remain open because there are genuine concerns about him starting school. Luckily he goes to a really good, supportive nursery with a good relationship with the village school he'll be going to. We've already spoken to the school senco and had some visits. Nursery assure me they'll flag everything up to the school on transition. Hopefully we'll make some progress if we keep the communication going. Me and DH have arranged work so he won't need any before or after school clubs and one of us (or my parents) can always drop him and collect him. I'm hoping this helps!

COVID and teachers striking certainly hasn’t helped with the age old argument of school is vital, important and to some degree compulsory.

Just want to pick up on this. School isn't compulsory to any degree. Education is compulsory.

Edited : obviously if you are enrolled in a school then you are subject to the attendance rules but schools are opt in in the UK. The law says we must educate not that we must send our child to school.

But parents of children with "actual issues" will likely have already tried this at the outset - it's not a long term solution and yet it is continually suggested to parents who ate months and years in with children who don't thrive in their school environment and who are at their wits end with trying to help their child, whilst all the supposed help often leads them down blind alleys and round in circles.

Thank you.

My school refuser was interviewed by Oxford University for his chosen subject. He wasn't successful in gaining a place but he comfortably passed the entrance test for his subject, despite not stepping a foot in high school bar the first 3 weeks of yr 7.

He actually barely accessed any education until year 10 because of his trauma.

I'm hoping success stories will be encouraging to those earlier on in this journey than I am!

@plasmeh "I saw her smiling and she was fine" drives me mad. I had this recently at a meeting. I explained to them that it is Fawning. People pleasing. Masking. But to such an extent that is a Trauma Response, not just 'putting a brave face on' as the school see it, or worse, 'silly parent, looking on the black side and silly child going home and moaning to Mum about the bad parts of the day when we see them occasionally looking happy'

I also said to them that an occasional smile I'm 5 school days a week was nowt to be proud of, or to aspire to.

Thankfully, I had our excellent SALT there with me to back me up on that one.

God, the government is failing our kids on a spectacular level.

Well exactly.

I think some people just make up facts to justify their own prejudices.

Fortunately we don't have a school refuser (in fact we have 1 who was head boy, 1 prefect and 1 who will probably follow her elder brother's footsteps) so no axe to grind here.

Complex problems usually have multiple complex causes.

I suspect part of the reason that statistics show that persistently absent children have a higher than average instance of a SAHP or WFH parent may in fact be, for many, because they have a persistently absent child.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I can relate to you completely. My first DS has ADHD and ASD. Every day is a nightmare. Luckily he has an EHCP so it doesn’t all fall on me. The battle is exhausting though.

My second son is struggling with depression after a very traumatic family bereavement, he’s lost all interest in everything and is facing permanent exclusion. His attendance is around 50%. We’ve been threatened with fines and prosecution. Had countless meetings at the school. We’ve tried everything. Even bribing him with money and other incentives. He just doesn’t care. He’s broken and traumatised, but the LA don’t care.

My DD has just started year 7 and is a superstar. Sets her own alarm, gets herself dressed with no screaming at me about not being able to find her clothes. Nearly perfect attendance. Perfect behaviour record. Does her homework without any encouragement from us at all.

My 4th is 3 so I don’t really have much to say about her. We have the usual tantrums sometimes but in general she loves school and goes in quite happily most days.

All children raised the same in a loving, stable and caring home with two parents who love them dearly.

I agree with you. The system is broken. I’m also so tired of being blamed for my second DS’s attendance. They have no idea what we go through every day of our lives to try and get him to comply to their ridiculous standards but he’s not having it. It’s pretty soul destroying isn’t it?

Oh Meglet , have you asked for Alternative Provision?

If she has had more than 15 days of absence the LA MUST provide it under s.19 of the Education Act 1996.

This could be access to home tuition or online schooling or access to a further education college (some offer maths and english for 14-16s) - anecdotally I've heard that some teens who can't be in school can manage college because there are less stringent rules.

If she is not ready for any form of education yet don't forget that it doesn't have to happen now. Health is more important.

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/news/children-out-of-school-your-top-questions-answered#:~:text=LAs%20must%20%5Bour%20emphasis%5D%20%E2%80%9C,arrangements%20are%20made%20for%20them

Does anyone have access to historic school attendance data? It would be useful to know whether it's the current increase that is the anomaly or the dip that preceded it.

https://epi.org.uk/publications-and-research/absence/

I have a theory on this (as the parent of a SEN kid).

I think budget cuts over years and a creaking system have forced schools to focus more and more on the ‘core’ and a one size fits all approach. The more you focus on a one size fits all, the more kids are not going to fit that box.

Hence we have more kids with SEN diagnoses, more kids not attending.

I’m autistic and never needed a formal diagnosis (got one as an adult just from
curiosity). I only attended school about half the time as i got too distracted and overwhelmed in class. I caught up at home and always got great grades. Teachers let me amend coursework based on my own special interests, so i’d do english essays on books I was interested in and so on. I didn’t need an EHCP. No one batted an eyelid. This was in an inner city comp but the teachers were at least empowered to use their common sense in educating me.

This would never ever happen now. Hence my kid, who’s pretty similar, has an EHCP, loads of diagnoses and went through periods of school refusal.

There aren’t ‘more’ SEN kids or MH kids now. Just the system doesn’t cater to the ones who are borderline and would have got on ok in days gone by.

@Plinkyplonky2 completely agree. I was allowed to follow my interests and strengths, allowed to go to the library, allowed to give talks in assembly on climate change and guide dogs and how bad tuna is for the environment it's the world that's changed.

My DS struggles massively with attendance, he has ASD and AdHD. He is on anxiety meds and waiting to be medicated for his ADHD. Privately diagnosed when he was in independent school and I pay for regular private psychiatry. Had to move him to state to even get him assessed for an EHCP.

I fought for 18 months to get him an EHCP to start secondary. He is super bright but the mainstream school environment is too much for him. The school give as much support as their funding allows. He is on a reduced timetable and struggling hugely but we have no other option. He can’t be home educated as he will not engage at all when at home.

I refuse to just deregister him and take on the responsibility myself, I have paid for everything to get him this far and I refuse to give up. I’m not a single parent, I work full time. It is so difficult to get an education that fits the needs of my child. We have been through working with the Inclusion team, they know we aren’t ’the problem’, they just can’t provide my DS with what he needs.

I am beyond worrying about what other people think of our situation, we are totally isolated with no friends and no support but in a way that is better as I don’t need to feel judged or the need to justify myself. The system is broken, it puts too much pressure on all kids and change is needed. That won’t happen though, so we just need to plough on. Sending strength to all.

Yes I think this is right.

Also increased testing in primary schools. The current year 6 sats mean that children are hothoused form an early age, dyslexic kids (often comes hand in hand with other neurodivergence) are set up to fail.

My second child has severe dyslexia along with ASD, and sensory processing issues (undiagnosed at primary school). The wheels started to fall off when she was forced to miss breaks at school to catch up with writing and spelling when her sensory needs meant that she needs more breaks than her peers. She went to school on the top table and the last time she attended she was in year 5 when she was on the bottom table. Her needs were not being met at all by school who said she was fine. The reality was she stopped eating, put her uniform on on Monday and refused to take it off till Friday and she slept in a tent on the living room floor. This was in a small (one form entry mainstream classroom). Despite being on the bottom table she was very cognitively able so wouldn't have been suited to the moderate or severe LD SEN schools locally and there were no others for those without LDs. There was no way she would cope in a mainstream secondary with 6 forms per year.

So there are a cohort of children (mostly SEN for whom there is no suitable school).

She has been 'educated other than at school' since year 5. Will do 7 GCSEs next year (looking at high grades -working towards grade 7-9 in each subject) and wants to look at colleges, her needs are different from my eldest so it may not be a mainstream state college for her. She may have to stay at home to access A -Levels.

The issue is that schools have become exam factories, they can't, due to funding cuts cater to children who can't cope in those environments and there is no intention to fund schools that cater to children who are intelligent but can't manage in mainstream.

It is far easier to parent blame and force children into home education than to provide ALL children with an appropriate education.

This is not easy to fix.

Oh and the removal of music and sport and art from primary (and secondary curriculums) plays a large part in this and impacts nd children more.

Especially when they are the point that all they can do is manage school and can't cope with anything out of school.

Yes. Basically Michael Gove restructured the curriculum to make it less suitable for ND kids and as IPSEA have pointed out in their blog then he accuses parents desperate to get help for their ND kids of bankrupting councils… it’s so shocking how we and our kids are being blamed for central government failings.

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/Blog/when-childrens-rights-become-demands-and-parents-get-the-blame

@DelilahsHaven nailed that! I hate remote work/wfh but it allows me to work at all…cause/effect eh?
and yes, it has been a loss of pay, opportunities and promotions to do it - hardly the easy choice

Read in isolation this makes sense as a theory, but in response I’d say what I said to another PP which is, have you actually met any of these child centric western parents? Because I am a parent, I know millions of parents and I honestly don’t know any where this is the case.

I have lived all over, I’ve been rich and poor, I’ve lived in communities where most people were from BAME backgrounds and apart from a vanishing minority, everyone I have ever come into contact with wants to do the best for our kids.

Sure there’s more of a focus on child centric parenting but actually very very few parents actually parent this way in reality. Most try and do our best using the age old approach of showing good behaviour, giving consequences, trying to control screen time etc etc. From my own experience those who have managed to follow through on the whole child-centred thing tend to have kids who are quite resilient. There’s been zero correlation between the hippy child-centred parents and those who are actually missing school.

What I’m saying is your opinion sounds like something you’ve read in a book and makes sense on paper but i just don’t think matches the reality I see out there?

@Plinkyplonky2 agree - I was able to do my own thing at PE, stay in at breaks in 80s/90s and no adjustments were officially made, my parents weren’t involved, there was no ‘staff shortages mean it’s all out everyone has to be at same PE/same break’

It absolutely matches my experience, both as a parent and working in the education sector.

I'm not suggesting parents aren't doing their best, just that they have a very different view of how to parent and that is leading to a lack of resilience amongst young people.

Reading books or empirical research is perfectly valid too, of course.

@Appollo555 fair enough. To be fair we did have a nanny who felt that starting at 9am was ‘bad for her mental health’ because it was too early so i accept there are people out there that are just fundamentally snowflakes

I think we can all imagine the lazy, feckless parent who either can’t be bothered to get out of bed to take their kids to school or is too weak to set any rules so they let their kids do whatever they want. I’m sure these parents exist in reality (and not just in the judgmental imagination of daily mail readers) but I’ve yet to meet one.

Most parents want the best for their kids. They don’t want them to be suffering and debilitated by anxiety, they do want them to be resilient and educated.

I have one DD who has hated school since she started 5 years ago. Taking her in when she doesn’t want to go hasn’t made her more resilient, her anxiety is sky high and she learns nothing in this state all day. I don’t know what the answer is. I think I’ve become a bit numb to the sympathetic head tilts and advice from people with no experience. It’s an issue. As a society we have increasing mental health issues which no one really has an answer to. Why people assume the reasons for this don’t also impact children is beyond me.

Just an observation but as a parent do we not tend to surround ourselves with like minded people who are more likely to take the same approach as us.

I'm thinking a teacher may see a wider variety of parenting styles and therefore be more aware of how a big a problem this is.

@Appollo555
I'm not suggesting parents aren't doing their best, just that they have a very different view of how to parent and that is leading to a lack of resilience amongst young people.

I'm interested in this because resilience was a word I had banded at me when my neurodiverse (not diagnosed at the time) 10 year old would rather try to kill himself than be in school.

How would forcing him into an environment that was so bad for him that he would rather be dead promote resilience?

Do you have evidence that if I had continued to do that he would be more resilient than he is now, about to embark on University life away from home, rather than dead?

My daughter is also autistic, is forcing her into an environment that she can't learn in going to make her a resilient adult, or is it better parenting to educate her in a way that meets her needs so that she is more productive and has a BETTER future in the adult world than if she came out of mainstream school traumatised and with poorer education outcomes, children can't learn in unsuitable environments?

All of this putting neurodiverse children in unsuitable and harmful environments to promote resilience seems extremely ableist to me.