Be honest - would you send DC private if you could?

[Naptrappedmummy]

If your DC is at a state school and you were offered free places for them at the local indie, would you accept? If so, why? If not, why not?

YANBU - Yes I would send them private
YABU - No I wouldn’t send them private

Me - yes I would, in a heartbeat (DD at state primary).

I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I just find your claims to want an equal society and do away with selective or elitist schools to be laughable. I don’t know how you can parrot that opinion with a straight face, because you’ve done the precise opposite for all the reasons that EVERY parent that sends their kid to such a school does it.

All these ‘oh I disagree with private/grammar because they’re for entitled elitist toffs, but I’ll excuse myself from that because MY reasons were better and more genuine than everyone else’s’ posts are hilarious.

Done the precise opposite to what? You do understand that had I not put DD in for the 11+, that the 11+ would still exist, yes?

I can't decide whether you're being goady or are just hard of thinking tbh.

Yanbu I would love to send him to private

Firstly in many areas it isn't a tiny proportion. In a couple London boroughs it is between 40 and 50%, and in many others it is still very high. In these areas private schools completely split society in two, where the rich and the poor kids barely mix, at all. If all those children attended the local schools, the local schools would be just fine! A normal mix of London society. Instead in some areas there are sink schools and private schools, and those who can't go private who can afford to move, move! How is that good for social cohesion or creating a strong community that supports the local people and local schools?

When I referred to some children not experiencing society I actually meant the private school kids don't get to see real life, not the other way round.

Also I didn't just refer to private schools but also grammar schools and changing admission criterias to not be based on distance for state schools, to avoid this rugby scrum of scrambling to buy overpriced housing on the doorstep of a state school. Those three things combined could have a huge impact on evening out the quality of education across the board.

Your point that most private schools aren't like Eton is totally beside the point. The fact is that most of the people RUNNING our country have no experience of what it's like to live a normal life in this country. Never needed state education, never needed the NHS, never needed benefits, the list goes on, some of them are just thoroughly unpleasant people. Yet purely by attending prestigious schools that most children have no hope of attending, they get a leg up, they get all the top jobs. Wouldn't we rather see more balanced people running the country? People who got there on merit?

And the comment about 'oh but some will go abroad...some will homeschool...' fine! They are free to do that. But most children want to go to school and benefit from being in school, and most don't want to be sent abroad away from thier family and friends. If schools were all largely fine, they wouldn't need to. And over time it will just become to the norm.

It's not imagining a 'utopia' to want to see positive change. It's not something that can be fixed overnight, but nothing ever can, it's about making positive gradual steps in the right direction.

That "utopia" you laugh at exists in many European countries.

I come from one of them, the Republic of Ireland, where everyone has access to a decent education, and very few pay for private, because they don't have to - since the country isn't in thrall to posh boys with more confidence than talent, and an establishment that perpetuates the myth.

No.

There's no need. They are in an outstanding state within walking distance with small classes that gets better results than the couple of local private schools.

There is no real diversity. It's 99% white but that's reflective of the local area and the private would be the same.

@AhNowTed

I come from one of them, the Republic of Ireland, where everyone has access to a decent education, and very few pay for private, because they don't have to

Well, that’s wonderful. But many in this country do pay for private school because they do feel they have to. You’re quite right that private schools would fall flat if there were consistently brilliant state schools… but in Britain, there aren’t 🤷‍♀️Blaming private school for state provision being poor is absolutely absurd.

@Elizadomuchly

The fact is that most of the people RUNNING our country have no experience of what it's like to live a normal life in this country. Never needed state education, never needed the NHS, never needed benefits, the list goes on, some of them are just thoroughly unpleasant people.

But that’s just rich people? There will always be rich people who don’t need anything from the state. Are you actually against rich people? I mean, fair enough - but the school situation is a symptom of that, not the cause.

And yeah - most people who want to be in power have distinctly dodgy personalities! There’s got to be something wrong with you if you want to be PM, right?

But the problems you describe are about the divide between the haves and have-nots. Schooling is just a symptom of that, not the root cause. These different sections of society don’t live together, socialise together etc. If they go to school together they don’t magically gel.

This is the situation we're in and I'm fortunate enough to be sending DS this year (it is a stretch). I imagine all the anti-private on here have their DC at an amazing state school which meets their needs. Good for them. The tables can quickly turn though. We had no intention of going private until we had a dyslexic son who is in a class where he's gone under the radar for years due to the number of kids with behavioural issues and higher needs than his.

No, I don’t. DS went to the geographically closest, very ordinary, state primary and will be going to the closest state secondary, likewise very ordinary.

Definitely. Plus it doesn’t suit all children, they aren’t all up to the pressure and academic standards. And if they are, they’ll do well anyway. Now my ds is an adult there is no noticeable difference in his friends careers / jobs wherever they went to school.

That’s like saying ‘I voted Tory but even if I hadn’t they would still be in government, so what does it matter that I did?’

I don’t think it’s me that is hard of understand tbh. Your views are irreconcilable with your actions - you can’t actually hold the opinion that you do in a sincere way because you’ve directly undermined it.

Ah, I see what the problem is now with your voting Tory analogy.

You think that deciding whether to put your child in for the 11+ or not is a referendum.

It's not a referendum. For it to be a referendum, it would have to be announced that it were a referendum so that everybody knew, and made their decision accordingly. You can't make a choice by yourself and just believe it a referendum.

Also in imaginary practical terms, abolishing grammars should it ever happen would be a lengthy process, and any referendum would be unlikely to affect the cohort sitting their 11+ at that time.

So again, my views are not irreconcilable with my actions, because my views cannot accommodated by the current system.

Sorry that’s hilarious! I will leave it there (and imagine you explaining to a fellow grammar parent how elitist they are next time I need a laugh!)

Are you confusing me with another poster? I haven't used the word elitist and I don't think parents themselves are elitist for accessing the state education which is currently available. The system is problematic but I would never criticise a parent for doing the best they can for their child in the system that exists. This is exactly how I feel about private education too. I don't agree with it on a societal level, but it's there and I completely understand why an individual parent might choose it.

No I wouldn't because ds is well settled in his state school and I am overall very happy with the provison and education he gets. Plus some independent schools aren't great.

However I would love to insist that I be allowed to take his imaginary free place and cash in it's value each year. A bit like managing your own LA care funding.

I could then use that sum, in addition to state school, to purchase additional educationally enriching youth opportunities for him like extra tuition, summer schools, music lessons, travel abroad, etc.

If I wasn't pleased with his state school and he wasn't happy, I would probably send him private in a heartbeat. I always vote for left leaning parties.

Are you saying that if children that are wealthy and poorer went to school together they wouldn't mix? I'm sorry but that's really untrue. I went to school with a mix of backgrounds and I wasn't even aware of the differences in wealth until much later on, sometimes after I left. It isn't something children generally think about unless their parents drill it into them.
I think you are just arguing for arguments sake there.

My point about those particular MPs is that they grow up in a tiny clique, they don't need anything from the state but they also don't witness any other needing from the state, they don't see real life. They don't mix at all with anyone other than their really rich friends who can also afford Eton.
It is one thing to not need the state but it's another to live completely separate from it.

I actually don't think people who want power necessarily have to have 'dodgy' personalities. Some people have a genuine desire and a drive to make society better! The fact that we rarely see that with our politicians probably has a huge amount to do with elitism and our school system.

We’ve been very fortunate in that although we live on a council estate DC attended an outstanding primary 5 minutes walk away which was a feeder school for an outstanding high school.

Eldest is autistic and although only got one 4 in GCSE’s enjoyed school and had a lovely cohort. DD14, probably ND has struggled academically too and the only time she has loved school was during Covid with a very small class on the days she was allowed to attend. DD11 is very academic and doesn’t struggle at all.

Their schools are the most diverse in the area. There is only 1 private school and no grammar schools. I don’t hear brilliant things about the private school and know people who have moved their DC to state for secondary. The only things that would make me move my DC to the private school for free is the smaller class sizes, the after school clubs included in the longer school day and the long school holidays. But I’m not sure the older 2 would adjust.

I totally understand where you're coming from by the way. Until you see fundamental system change you have to make do with the system available.
It's one thing to reject a system when it effects yourself, and quite another to sacrifice your child for your ideology.

What I think you are saying is that you would support and vote for a total overhaul of the system, but with the system as it currently stands, you have to do what's best for your child, I don't really understand what's wrong with they view.
It is a very difficult area to tread and it's not black and white, at least you're honest about it.

Yes! DS is autistic and there is the most amazing private school for autistic children nearby, I’d send him there in a heartbeat.

Because she wouldn’t have voted for it had her DC still been in school.

If you don’t believe in private schools or grammars it’s an absolutist belief. You can’t say you don’t believe in them ‘unless XYZ’ because that means you DO believe in them, just under certain conditions.

The issue is her ‘belief’ is disingenuous and untenable. And every person who uses the system, for whatever reason, is propping it up and propagating it regardless of how good their reasons are. Blaming ‘the system’ when you’re part of it is a bit tiresome.

I would’ve made the same decision and sent my DC to grammar, absolutely, but despite understanding why it’s ‘unfair on others’ I wouldn’t then insist I would dismantle the system if I could because my actions would clearly show otherwise.

At secondary age, yes - absolutely.

There's a reason why even the most ardent socialists and lefties send their kids to private schools if they can . They are better. Not just academically , but behaviour wise and pastorally ( generally speaking).

They have better standards all round with better educators and professionals working there. Yes, you might get great teachers that get a thrill from working with deprived kids in deprived areas and bringing them through, but the grind will get to them and the prospect of more money and better conditions will eventually appeal.

It's pretty devastating watching your child move from a brilliant primary school to a massive comprehensive where survival is the name of the game.

We all want the best for our kids and they will get diversity and meet great friends at private school as they would state school.

Absolutely

@Elizadomuchly

Are you saying that if children that are wealthy and poorer went to school together they wouldn't mix? I'm sorry but that's really untrue. I went to school with a mix of backgrounds and I wasn't even aware of the differences in wealth until much later on, sometimes after I left. It isn't something children generally think about unless their parents drill it into them.
I think you are just arguing for arguments sake there.

Children may well mix nicely at school; I’m not disputing that at all. Im saying that the divisions in society aren’t magically fixed by that; children will still go home to vastly different circumstances. You still have a massive rich/poor divide. Private schools are a symptom of that, not the cause.

You’d have to (and we should!) unpick a lot of our society to remove inequality. Private school seems like a very odd place to start though - or perhaps just an easy target. But as I’ve said, what kind of country are you hoping for in which private schools are banned?! How could that even happen? The only way to remove the need for private schools is to make state schools so good that no one wants to pay for anything else. And societal problems make that very, very difficult.