For not choosing the underprivileged child?

[PolitePeep]

Named changed for this as maybe outing, plus I probably sound like a huge bitch.

We have 1 DD age 12, hormonal tween stage. But generally a polite, thoughtful, well behaved kid.

DD has a few 'best' friends, one from school, one who's a sports team mate and one who she's known since a baby as I'm friends with the mum.

Having an only we are able to have kids over whenever DD fancies. Take a friend with us on days out etc.

School friend I find rude/ungrateful and treats me like I'm an annoyance and not to be interfering in her time with my DD.

Other two are polite and happy to chat while I'm giving them a lift home etc.

Here's the guilt part. The two polite friends each are from backgrounds where they get plenty of holidays, treats, days out etc.

I feel bad that I don't want to spend my weekend days with the school friend and so we invite one of the other two to days out/weekends away. As I know she won't get to visit where we're going.

My DD generally prefers to take one of the other girls as she sees the school one 5 days a week.

Should I feel guilty?

Family of “underprivileged” may be uncomfortable accepting expensive days out that they cannot reciprocate? I would take my daughters choice of friend even I felt they were bad influence/rude …keep your enemies close and all that.

Not your choice I'm afraid. But trust me she will find her own appropriate 'level'...eventually , if you leave her to it. There are ways of dealing with inappropriate responses , just think why might they might be there in the first place.

YANBU, it should be your DD's choice, you're inviting them for her benefit

My son has a friend who I dislike for similar reasons. I don’t feel bad when my son chooses his other two, closer, friends to spend time with us on days out and holidays. It’s nothing to do with the first friend’s privilege or lack thereof. He’s just harder to be around. If my son wanted him to come, I’d take him. You’re being a bit Lady Bountiful here.

YANBU

One of the learning points of life is that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

It sounds like she feels awkward around you too. Perhaps she doesn't come from a home where people do say thank you or please? My DH says Can you pass the ketchup without a please. It drives me nuts sometimes but it's the way he was brought up (definitely not in poverty). He's also often embarrassed at how to respond when people buy him things like favourite foods. Especially if it's something he doesn't really want at that time. It can sound ungrateful to say Oh, thanks but I don't really want cookies today or I like white chocolate cookies but only Tesco ones etc.

See how their friendship goes and try not to be too irritated by her. It's definitely not a money thing you're feeling (other than wanting to give a child treats) but more a social upbringing one which has nothing to do with money or class.

Since it's your daughter's choice, I don't see that it's unreasonable for you to invite A and B rather than C.

However, perhaps very occasionally you could invite C?

Children sometimes appear rude when they feel uncomfortable or don't know what to say. I think it was a bit mean to correct the child in such a pompous way - "we all say please and thank you in our house" is like saying to the child "you've obviously been dragged up in your house".

You can always remind her in your house you say please, thank you etc. she won't learn if the desired behaviour isn't modelled for her and if she's not getting that at home, maybe if she's around you a bit more, she will learn more of what is acceptable behaviour.

It's difficult, but as PPs have said if your daughter hasn't asked you are spared that decision. If she begged you to take school friend for a weekend - what would you say?

DS has additional needs, and struggled with friendships all through school. In about Year 4 a new boy joined and they became friends very quickly. I heard anecdotally that the boy was always naughty and in quite serious trouble at school so wasn't exactly keen, but pleased for DS that he had a friend at last.

The boy normally came to school by taxi but one day his parents came and I chatted to them. They were quite young, had a range of children of different ages and very autistic toddlers who couldn't attend normal school etc - so clearly a challenging scenario. DS wanted to invite the boy to ours so I said I would collect and drop off (the parents didn't have transport) and it was all arranged.

Well - the boys had a lovely evening, and there were no major issues. But as you said, the lad had different manners and behaviour etc - but nothing terrible. On the way home he started telling us how he watches TV until 3 am every night, and how he gets £100 pocket money a month. It was so sad - I'm quite sure neither was true and his parents seemed good people who were doing their best, but of course it concerned me about my DS hearing these stories and believing them etc. He is autistic and can't tell what's true - plus I did worry about possible bad influences as they got older.

I still feel guilty and like a horrible person - but I was actually relieved when the family were relocated to a town a bit further away. DS was sad for a year or so, but got over it. But you do feel torn about being a horrible judgemental person, not much liking an innocent kid, not giving a child the chance to experience something amazing (to them), worrying about your child getting bad habits, and all the other ramifications. I suppose we are all human - but I sympathise.......

Tbh, whether she comes from an ‘under privileged’ background is irrelevant when it comes to manners. I’ve also come across children with lots of privilege who are rude and self entitled. People on here appear to think if you come from a background that doesn’t afford you luxuries like lots of days out and holidays, that they are somehow unhappy with their lot, and have miserable lives. As long as they are getting love within their families, they are very capable of being both happy and, shock horror, having manners.

I’m going to against the grain here, but I would occasionally invite child C out if her home life is lacking.
Even if she is rude/annoying she will probably have an amazing time and remember the experience, it would be valuable to her upbringing.
It would be a really kind thing to do. No, you are not a charity, but doing kind charitable things is still allowed….

There is nothing wrong in calling out rudeness - in fact your guidance may be the only instruction this child has had . And if she takes the message on board it will be very constructive for her.

YANBU at all. If your DD asks to invite her somewhere then I don’t think you should say no, but if she doesn’t then there is no issue.

Her background is no excuse for rudeness though. They’re not babies so rather than the approach you’ve been taking, privately and gently address her behaviour and lay out your expectation that she be polite in the future.

She is 12 and young people often get it wrong. This goes for under privileged, over privileged and mid privileged. You are overthinking it. She will probably learn to be a bit more charming in time.

I wouldn't chose this cheeky little madam either. I was going to suggest you tell her what you expect in your house (have had a friend's mother to that to a group of us when we walked into her house, did not greet her and "started munching" - and quite rightly too) then I read all your posts and saw that you have already done that.

I don't think you should feel guilty as long as it's your DD that gets to choose which friend gets invited and that the options include all three friends and not just the more polite two.
Also, how do you know she's never been to a museum etc? Do you know much about her upbringing?
Oh and for what it's worth, years ago when my DS was still at primary school, he had a friend over for tea/play. This boy came from a very middle class family. Lovely big detached house, very well spoken, fancy cars etc etc. Much different to our family and house! I'd popped upstairs and when I came downstairs, this boy was walking and jumping across my work surfaces in the kitchen!!!!! I still recall saying in a shrill (gobsmacked) voice to get down because we don't walk on work surfaces in this house! 😂 His table manners were dire too. So for all his family's snobbish attitude, they clearly hadn't taught their child any manners!!!

Invite the friend whom your daughter wants to invite.

Don't choose for her.

Don't provide a "social service day out charity" for the school friend.

I think YABu. It sounds like you coerce dd into naming the other two by nit even giving her the choice of child care when you ask her who she wants to take so your eliminating her from the choice from the outset. It then follows that its not totally dds choice not to take child c. So yes YABU. Let your daughter choose and it doesn't have to be regularly that child c it out as an option but not to include her ever is harsh.

I don’t think you are doing anything wrong - and possibly are doing something right - by not taking her on the day trips. I think she’d possibly feel overawed/ awkward and you’d get understandably annoyed by the ingratitude and it would probably show, plus, most importantly, your DD isn’t asking for it.

The only thing I would say is I’m not so sure about such black and white rules around the please and thank you in your home. Fine to insist DD does it when she’s there; but actually the real point of manners is to put people at ease. (Cue the old story about the guest in the court of the king. All courtiers looked aghast at the guest’s uncouth table manners; then even more aghast when the king copied the error to put the guest at ease). Not suggesting she is thinking that and judging you and I know you’re trying to do the right thing/ model good behaviour, but I just personally think having rules around guests’ manners ( within reason obviously; you can’t accept people throwing food or peeing on the carpet) is a bit off. I get that it’s blurred by her being a child. But if I were you I’d ease off on that, as it probably makes her feel somehow lesser, and then clear your conscience over the day trips. Just give her nice relaxed visits where she feels welcome not on trial for manners she hasn’t got. She’ll pick it up if your DD sticks to it.

You've really taken this and run a marathon with it. Other than the manners thing which you mention please/thank you - everything is isn't important. The 'where's my ketchup' would have received reproach from me too. Everything else wrt tallying up who gets to enjoy a day out a Kew Gardens or a meal that isn't baked beans on toast or whatever is way over the top.

This. You're actually doing her a service when you point out what normal manners are. It sounds as if her home life is unhappy as well as less privileged? So your home might be a safe haven for her, in a way.

I can see why you'd find her annoying though!

I’m really not sure I agree with this line of thought. Manners aren’t supposed to be something you demand for your own benefit and sensibilities; they’re something you extend for the benefit of others. If you aren’t the family, guardian or school in a position of teaching responsibility, I genuinely don’t think it’s your place . You just become judgmental ( and ironically bad mannered for pointing out how great yours are compared with hers). I understand it’s a bit less clear cut when she is still a child; but I would model gently via your own DD rather than make her feel like muck over it.

But there's only so much giving and not getting pleases or thank yous (or even recognition that I cooked/bought her favourite snack etc) that I can take in my own home.
Grew up with a dad who took what he wanted, never said please or thank you but hit the roof if the rest of us acted that way.
Genuinely it's my issue with the manners and clearly thinking I'm a loser.
Compared to her glam looking older sisters I'm very much a frumpy old librarian who is way too strict.
Can feel that I'm letting this kid make me feel like the 'popular' ones at school made me.

Maybe this isn't really about the girl and thank you, but about your own feelings and maybe insecurities?
"Clearly thinking I am a loser", making you feel like at school... This is awful lot of influence a young girl has on you. You can reduce her presence in your life, but those feelings will get triggered by something else, if you don't understand them.

You sound a bit fixated and the thank yous. Saying the word on right places doesn't make someone a good person, just well trained person.

If you try to take her just as an awkward child learning her way and making mistakes, maybe you will see it easier to not make the obligatory pleases that big deal - and she in turn might become more relaxed and communicative.

Yes. You might both feel better OP, both you and the little girl.

This.