For not choosing the underprivileged child?

[PolitePeep]

Named changed for this as maybe outing, plus I probably sound like a huge bitch.

We have 1 DD age 12, hormonal tween stage. But generally a polite, thoughtful, well behaved kid.

DD has a few 'best' friends, one from school, one who's a sports team mate and one who she's known since a baby as I'm friends with the mum.

Having an only we are able to have kids over whenever DD fancies. Take a friend with us on days out etc.

School friend I find rude/ungrateful and treats me like I'm an annoyance and not to be interfering in her time with my DD.

Other two are polite and happy to chat while I'm giving them a lift home etc.

Here's the guilt part. The two polite friends each are from backgrounds where they get plenty of holidays, treats, days out etc.

I feel bad that I don't want to spend my weekend days with the school friend and so we invite one of the other two to days out/weekends away. As I know she won't get to visit where we're going.

My DD generally prefers to take one of the other girls as she sees the school one 5 days a week.

Should I feel guilty?

Sorry but her manners are nothing to do with you. Concentrate on your own child. If you don't want her to come round that's up to you but I really don't think you should be directly criticising her like this.

My dd is also 12 and has beautiful manners. I would be absolutely mortified if she treated an adult ( or anyone to be honest ) like that.

we live in a HA house and dd has got everything she wants and needs but we are probably poor by MN standards. Manners are ingrained from a young age and it sounds like this girl has not had the best examples or people who pull her up on her lack of manners. Ultimately it’s up to you because you’re the one paying and entertaining this child but you never know, your dd’s good manners may rub off on her. Some kids have really shitty lives and don’t know any different.

Lol! If only it were that easy to detect abusive parents. Anyway the mum could be perfectly nice but just not too hot on please and thank you.

I was always taught that the number one most important thing is to make your guests feel comfortable. I would think about how that translates to the way you are treating her, there's more to manners than saying thank you

Nah you’re not unreasonable. We don’t have rude kids with no manners back for repeat visits.
I’ve been known to ask ‘did you not get taught any manners?’ when I don’t get a thank you for anything.
Manners cost nothing it’s not a question of class or background. I wouldn’t take her places either

I seem to be in the minority here but why even mention the kid is underprivileged if it’s just the manners, saying please and thank you that are the problem.

Your daughter likes the child but she does not show enough gratitude for being invited to your house and appreciating what you have done for her.

Maybe it’s her upbringing, maybe she doesn’t understand the social niceties or is just shy but you were the one who made it about circumstances.

I think that there's a difference in modelling good manners and openly criticising or teaching a child.
Also, if her life is as you describe, your life might seem to be one of unbelievable luxury and ease to her. She may not realise that you have put some effort into remembering her favourite snack and the buying it specially. She may just think that this is the sort of thing which automatically comes as part of your luxurious life in the same way that (I'm guessing) the house is warm & clean & your daughter has clothes which fit, are seasonally appropriate and clean.
Finally, bear in mind that these might not be her favourite snack. For example, was the name of them something which randomly popped into her head as an appropriate answer to a question when she was put on the spot one day

It's hard without hearing her reactions. It could be embarrassment. It could be awkwardness. It could be worry that you're buying nice things and she can't reciprocate. It could be neurodiversity....so many things.

My children are polite but their ASD means that their brains have to process what they're seeing before they can kick the manners in. So 'where's the ketchup' might be an automatic response if they're being served a meal that they would eat ketchup with. Then they'd realise their mistake and be too embarrassed to say something else, etc.

I think really, you need to decide if you'd be happy to take this girl out. If you would, then perhaps change your question to "Would you like to take a friend?", which allows your DD to choose friend C if she wants to.

I’ve been known to ask ‘did you not get taught any manners?’ when I don’t get a thank you for anything.

This isn't particularly Debrett's-compliant either! There's no need to treat your guests this way and it's pretty unmannerly/ungracious in itself.

And children don't learn from being shamed. They'll just think (rightfully), "well, Nancy's mum is a bit of a dragon, I don't think I'll accept a playdate round there any more". And your dd will lose out.

Children learn manners more effectively from observation of good modelling.

Do people seriously think this way? I mean it wouldn't enter my head as a reason for/against inviting her lol if she's a cheeky mare to you and your daughter has already said she'd rather the other two because she spends five days a week with school friend already what more reason do you need? You're not a charity

Well, I think it would be good to take the other friend sometimes. How is she ever going to learn to behave differently and without the chance to spend time with families that are not like hers? Good to teach your DD about being thoughtful as well.

I think you sound lovely. I would feel exactly the same and I'm struggling to see why anyone is being snarky to you tbh. You're trying to be kind.

I had a friend growing up whose parents felt they were above others. They were wealthier and better educated than most but they were terrible snobs with it. Their DD, my friend, was lovely though and I was good friends with her. I once got invited to a posh outing to accompany their DD because their preferred choice of her companion had to cancel at the last minute (the DD told me this unfortunately, not to be mean but in misguidedly trying to explain the late invitation). I enjoyed the event, but I felt overall tolerated rather than wanted, and also inferior in that my family didn't do that kind of event as the norm too.

What I would say is be very nice and properly welcoming to school friend when she does come round. Making her feel valued and equal in your home is more important than events.

I think you sound nice and are conscious that child 3 just doesn’t seem to have access to the same opportunities. FWIW I wouldn’t correct her on the not asking for ketchup (eg) nicely but I would at the end of the play date or outing thank her for coming, say you love having her, and that it’s nice to have such a lovely guest. Being kind models good behaviour and social mores. That said, I’d let your DD choose who to invite, unless there’s an imbalance and you ‘owe’ a return invite.

Those kids might not have been taught any manners though. Is that the kids' fault or their parents?

You can meet kids who have the best manners technically, but they are also entitled, sly or pompous.

I'm not sure how else I can word how much I have and do try to make her feel welcome and valued. I ask what she likes, ask her the same questions I ask anyone, offer the same things.

I treat everyone in my house the same (with the exception of babies/toddlers and my elderly/profoundly disabled relatives who require special treatment.) and I expect the same back - again with the same exceptions although my Nan would get the occasional tongue in cheek "what did your last slave die of" as we had a good relationship like that, bless her.

I genuinely hate the attitude that anyone is anything other than equal to anyone else. We're all people. No ones perfect or better than anyone. (Exceptions of genuinely evil folk - ironically the sorts who think they are better than others.)

But after this thread I'm wondering if by giving this friend what I'd give any other visitor, or expecting from her what I do of anyone else (in my head treating her equally) is not the right move?

Also - I'd never expect a child from any background to bring me anything in return. Didn't really ever enter my head a child would feel guilty that a parent was offering them a snack and couldn't return the favour. Don't think it'd enter DDs head either.

I'm ND and do chronically overthink my social encounters with people. Hate to think I've been anything other than welcoming.

I didn't mean to suggest you weren't welcoming OP, I'm sorry if it came across that way. You sound very thoughtful I was more reminiscing/writing it to my childhood friend's parents than you, if that makes sense.

You’re not really giving your child free choice are you?! Would you like a or b to go out with us- you’re making it clear c is not invited. You’re picking c up for lack of manners. That’s really not your job and your child will absolutely know you don’t like c.
I don’t extract pleases
and thank yous from my child’s friends. Yes it can be a bit annoying when they don’t but as long as they are a good friend to my child they would be welcome to join us for a day out. Do you really say ‘what’s the magic word’ to adult acquaintances?

I also think it’s quite unusual for secondary school kids to sit around chatting or watching tv with friends’ parents

OP you alluded to it earlier but I suspect it’s because of how this girl is making you feel when she looks at you with what you perceive as contempt, moreso than the absence of please and thank you that is bothering you . The underprivileged thing may be a bit of a red herring in the way of explaining her behaviour. She just sounds slightly unpleasant which she may grow out of.

I say that because I’ve worked with a wide range of kids including private school /rich kids and care experienced kids from very tough backgrounds. I’ve seen a sprinkling of rude kids equally in all these groups.

And by rude I’m not talking about those who don’t know social etiquette as such, I’m meaning kids who are a bit surly and slightly hostile to adults they deem uncool.

I’m also ND and was socially awkward as a child especially around friend’s parents, but I’d be able to put on a smile and be pleasant even if my words got stuck. I really can’t remember if I said please and thank yous but a lot of friends did comment their parents liked me. I think they probably noticed I seemed a bit awkward and felt sorry for me tbh

But no, don’t feel bad about not inviting her out on day trips.

Probably best not to correct her manners though as she probably just finds it embarrassing and irritating. And you may find yourself locking horns with her if it continues. So basically it won’t do any good for either of you.

She might be projecting her negative experience with her mother on to you. I had a friend with an abusive father who disliked all of her friends fathers for that reason

@PolitePeep dont be worrying, you're doing nothing wrong!

I remember making best friends with the rich kid at school and going to her house, she's moved back to London now but I still visit her mum and take my DC with me, she means the world to me.
Apparently the first thing I said when I went into their massive detached house was, "fucking hell, your fridge is massive! Can I look inside it?" I don't remember saying it thankfully but apparently that was my first impression. 😂

(She picked me up from school once whilst her dd went to a Club and took me to pick up dinner from Marks and Spencer, I'd never been inside one before and I was a teen at this point and I do remember saying this cringes when the cashier rung everything up, "dont worry, we can just leave this here and go the asda you know". Rude, highly, trying to be helpful, definitely 🤦🏼‍♀️😂

Maybe the kid is just too awkward to talk to you, hopefully she'll come round, either way you're not in the wrong!

She’s your daughter’s friend, not yours. stop trying to control her. I think she understands what you really feel about her when you talk about being polite. kids are smart

And this is the way to do it, isn’t it? Not tell the child how to behave. Model with kindness. My dd is friends with a girl, whose mother isn’t the most attentive. At times things have riled, but not the girl, the mum. The girl has mild learning difficulties and she’s a real character.

I don't think I've ever once mentioned it on here but I have mild learning difficulties myself and without my friends parents who I've just mentioned advising me on things and showing me little tricks etc my teen years would have definitely been harder. They picked up on my inability to do certain things that my parents never and without ever overstepping helped me immeasurably. I'll always love them for their support.

You sound pretty ill mannered yourself tbh
Why would you say that to a kid and make them feel.uncomfortable?