No inheritance because of pilot training

[Poily]

My brother is a pilot for a major airline in the UK. My parents were not able to borrow against their house to fund it so had to use pretty much all their savings. £150k was roughly what was spent.

Due to their failed business (folded just after Covid) they racked up massive loans trying to save their hospitality-related business. When they sell their house they won’t end up with much.

So I don’t know exactly how it works but some of that £150k ends up in a bond which the airline then pays out to my brother every month in his pay packet. But if my brother walks away from the airline he walks away from this bond also. It’s a lot of money. Gets paid over 7 years I think.

AIBU to think my brother should not quit his job and move to the Middle East (stupid salary) as he plans to do? He way paying that bond money to my parents.

Brother has said he will cover my parents bills. Great. Thats the right thing to do. But that cuts me out. As my parents were transferring the bond
money into a savings account for my kids.

AIBU?

Yes, tbh I'm doubting the kids ever saw it/will see it mostly through OPs complaints that now SHE will be left with nothing, not her kids

I'm confused, how was his training 150k I work in the industry and our pilots training is 105k roughly (I've been looking into it) even the pilot I knew said it was 105k.

But regardless of that what's done is done. It's your parents money if they want to support their son that's their perogative just don't fall out with them over it, life is too short.

OP, if your brother was able to pay them back a lump sum now, you (or your kids) still wouldn't see any of that money. Let's say he suddenly paid them 120k (150k minus the 30k he must have paid already...though from your posts it seems he may have only borrowed 80k+30/40k). After selling their house and clearing the debts, your parents' only asset would be that 120k. From that, they certainly wouldn't be giving your children 700 a month. They would need to live on that money (including paying rent).

If you're not getting money now and/or not getting an inheritance in the future (not owed to you anyway), the reason is because of your parents' failed business. Just stay out of it and be thankful that your kids have already been gifted 30k+.

Yes she should.
What kind of person could sit on tens of thousands given by their parents when their parents are now struggling?

And it's not a hypothetical that the OP can dismiss because she doesn't want to hear it.

Many years ago my parents started a savings account for all their grandchildren. Then later they had a financial crisis. I told them use that money you've been saving for the kids.

They didn't want to because it was money they'd wanted the children to have.

I said they were being ridiculous.

I said that it was really lovely of you but now you need it. It's your money. It doesn't matter what you were saving it for, you need it now. My sister OTOH said she'd already told her daughter about it. I don't think she wanted them to use it. So my niece got the money they'd saved for her and they used the money they have saved for my children to feed themselves until it ran out.

Some time after that I told them to take me out of their will and leave the house to my sister. It can go to my niece and I'll focus on making sure my children are provided for after I'm dead. And not as a bitchy judgemental thing, genuinely because that's how I wanted it to be. My parents even rang me from the solicitors office to ask me was I really sure. I have no idea why because I'm pretty damn sure they don't need the solicitor to agree or anything. I assume they didn't want him to think they were cutting me out and judge them 🤣

So OP, there actually are people whose ethics mean they do things differently to you. And I bet I'm not in the minority either.

105k is the ideal case and will work if you come immediately out of the flying school with your MPL or ATPL with the brand new rating on a light twin and then go straight into the sponsoring airlines training on commercial type and straight onto the airlines payroll

Problem I have heard is that some of these supposedly sponsored courses didn’t guarantee a job straight out of flying school…any long gaps in the post training process due to the airline itself having a hold on it’s part of the process, usually the conversion onto the commercial type, and the students can end up having to pay out to keep that licence valid…certainly happened to a few due Covid, it’s still a risk if there’s a major downturn.

I do agree 150k is a bit of an outlier but I can see how that sort of cost could be accrued, IMHO it’s certainly credible.

If you are thinking of airline sponsored training (MPL or ATPL) you need to look at the small print in the contracts very carefully.

Ultimately it seems you may not fully understand the full details of the financial arrangement between your parents and brother. His move to the Middle East is irrelevant. If he currently works for the big budget airline, moving to one of the two major airlines based out of the ME will bring a huge increase in salary, subsidised living expenses & tax benefits. His take home position will massively exceed his current one, even though that includes the reimbursement from the airline. He will also gain the experience long haul/bigger aircraft hence needing extra type ratings etc. This will result in far more rapid career progression/future earnings than staying where he is.
Longer term he will have no trouble repaying the lump sum that your parents loaned him. But yes, that might not enable your parents to gift the very substantial sum of £700/month to your children. It’s actually really shocking that all you seem worried about is receiving that money, when your parents clearly are in financial crisis that they did not anticipate at this stage in their life.

Did OP want to train as a pilot though?

And it wasn’t a gift: it was a loan. And from the brother’s point of view, an investment into what would be a lucrative career that would allow him to pay back the loan and more.

Wow it's a wonder anyone becomes a pilot with those kind of up front costs! Is this a career only for the rich? Who would be able to pay that kind of money up front? Seems insane especially as other well-paying careers are so much easier to get into.

You are very unreasonable!

If my parents were in so much debt, there's no way I would let them give my children $700 a month. The priority should be on paying the debt.

They are healthy and presumably have many years to live, they should save that money for their care in later years and only accept inheritance until they die.

It seems that you were taking advantage of them, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I’ve read through this thread I really can’t believe you want to keep receiving £700 a month for your kids when your parents are alive and well and need their money. Your brother is prepared to keep paying back and provide a home for your parents and your concern is your inheritance. For your brother to leave his airline it’s probably financially better to go with his new job or he would not have taken it. Your parents will benefit from having a secure home. I know it would be better to get the full amount in one go, but they may just end up paying it all to debtors.
its maybe the better solution. Hope it works out well for your parents. I’m sure they’ll help your kids if and when they can. You’ve already had a few years of deposits towards your kids . Be grateful for that. They sound like they have been very supportive and generous.

Wow it's a wonder anyone becomes a pilot with those kind of up front costs! Is this a career only for the rich? Who would be able to pay that kind of money up front? Seems insane especially as other well-paying careers are so much easier to get into

Nope, not only for the rich, there are other pathways. I know 2 families where the kids got defence force scholarships. That meant:

• salary from day 1 on entering the force
• full degree funded by the defence force
• finish basic training and immediately become an officer
• pilot training, full quals, nothing to pay
• they needed to stay with the defence force for 5 years from entry. Both of those kids quit immediately after their 5 years and had a job lined up on a major commercial. The airline trained them on their jumbo jets, paid whilst doing so, and started flying on very good money.

I also know of one person who went from the military (Air Force but non scholarship route so had to work their way up). Then they get into commercial airlines the same way but at an older age (around 30yo in this guys case). He said lots of them do this solely with the aim of transferring to large commercial airlines without having to fork out any money. He said they prefer to take people with military flight experience rather than those that have paid to achieve their quals in a civilian manner as it’s thought they perform better under pressure in an emergency situation, but that may be bunk and just his take on it, or may be true, no idea.

I am very much thinking that the OP's children are only getting £700 a month because that's a way of hiding it from OP's parents creditors. Otherwise I doubt they would be getting anything (did they get anything before your brother's employer started paying back the bond money, OP?)

I also suspect that that's the amount that is coming back from the bond each month and as brother has agreed to cover it indefinitely, parents are no worse off and brother is no better off. OP is just worse off as a result of her parents being bankrupt.

Thank you. That's very helpful. The aviation world is fascinating.

What is unethical about it? If the house will raise enough to pay everyone and they are willing to wait then surely it is between them. If you owe me £10k and you can either give me £100 a week for 2 years or give me £10k next year surely I can decide which I'd prefer. I'd prefer the lump sum as paying in bits and pieces just feels like you end up with less, if you were in that position and wanted the monthly payments then that's great, crack on.

The flight schools and airlines refer to them as bonds.

All of a sudden the bond which initially provided you with APL sponsorship and formed part of your training fees, has now become owned by your employer. As a result, the airline now has security against your employment in a bid to provide financial incentive to prevent you from wanting to jump ship. As part of your employment contract you will receive terms for the return of your security bond in exchange for a number of years service of which the typical duration is around 7 to 10 years.

@Iwasafool the creditors haven't been given a choice though? The money has been hidden from them, they may not be happy to wait at all. We don't know that the money was owed to someone who wouldn't miss it for a few years like HMRC or Mastercard. The debts were accrued because of a small business folding so the creditors could very likely be the business suppliers, potentially other small businesses.

OP this is none of your business.

Firstly how much has he already paid back?

Also it's worked out for your parents as any portion of the debt outstanding hasn't been used in a sinking business or paying off debts.

Also your brother has taken in a burden of debt going forward that will likely far exceed what he owes them.

If he pays back whatever he owes are you willing to step up and help your parents.

What are the other solutions?

@XelaM

Wow it's a wonder anyone becomes a pilot with those kind of up front costs! Is this a career only for the rich? Who would be able to pay that kind of money up front? Seems insane especially as other well-paying careers are so much easier to get into.

The whole training situation in the UK radically maybe 30 years back the advent of “easy credit” and a lot of training has been paid for on the back of house price inflation.

FWIW I was a council house kid who benefited from the military system, served there quite some time, then spent my own money on what was need to gain civilian licences and ended up flying commercially for several decades.

My husband had lessons for his ppl. Fixed wing aircraft. 25 years ago and it was an eye watering £75 per hour.

It's always been bloody expensive!

There was an arrangement set up that my parents would pay back their loans with the sale house. The other side preferred this as an option.

DB also paid for flight instructor training. Forget if this was self funded or if parents paid.

You still haven’t answered two very important questions:

Why do you think you will have any inheritance when your parents have lost everything?

What are you doing to support your parents following their change of circumstances?

Yet another random post.

Please use the quote function.

I would argue the £150k is the inheritance.

Day to day there is not much I can do. I’m a stay at home mum with very young children. We also live approx 2.5-3.5 hours away (depends heavily on London traffic)

My in laws offered my parents a rental property at reduced rates, they declined.

I know my brother is doing a good thing caring for them but I am allowed to feel aggrieved by the imbalance of it all.

The OP said they'd agreed.