AIBU to want more photos from my child’s nursery

[HelloWorld2577]

To keep it brief. I’ve had multiple children attend this nursery over the past 5 years. My daughter is now there and has been for the past two years.

When my other children attended the nursery they would do daily posts which included a mixture of individual posts with photos of just my child and group posts where you could see what all the class were doing. Either way they were updating the app (tapestry) daily or at the very least 3 out of 5 days a week.

My older child left there last year and since the posts have really deteriorated. I’ve just had a look and since coming back from Christmas (my daughter attends full time) there have only been 2 group posts, one of those posts she wasn’t in it, and one you could see the back of her head.

I know it may sound trivial but I find it very frustrating that they charge £75 a day and I don’t even get to see what my daughters doing at nursery, I also have mum guilt for working full time & some mornings she struggles to go in so would put me at ease to just see what she’s doing. I raised it with management after my older child left and said I wasn’t getting many photos or updates on the app and they simply said they don’t have time to do individual posts now so they are trying to take photos of all children to post on one group post. This itself I find an issue because there are usually between 50 and 80 photos per group post and then I have to go through every photo like a detective searching for the side of my child’s head! It’s frustrating. when I raised it previously they said they were trying to do a couple of group posts a week but as I said above they’ve only done 2 posts over the last 3 weeks.

AIBU? I really want to raise it again but I don’t want to be one of those parents!! I understand they’re busy but if every other nursery do it why can’t they? It just seems lazy?!

How do I bring it up AGAIN?!

@ColleenDonaghy it’s not the right fit for all settings and all parents. In my experience of working on an app it has been well received. Those that don’t want to use it or interact with it don’t have to. You must also appreciate that a nursery is a business and is run as such - processes and admin tasks can be digitalised which saves time and burden. Obviously you shouldn’t replace care and interaction with a device and I have not suggested that. The nurseries I work for used to previously use iPads to support learning and circle time in pre school to look at resources relevant to their interests but we have gone back on this and removed them. It’s not technology for technologies sake but you do also need to be aware that our children are growing up in a world that is very different to the one we grew up in and you can’t compare the two

And also for those people that think nursery is just playing all day have never worked in one. The amount of paper work, record keeping and admin that needs to be done by all people at all levels is crazy. If it’s done on an iPad or on paper it makes no difference, there are always distractions. Of course the number one concern is the care and welfare of the children but there are so many other tasks that need to be recorded that goes beyond making playdoh

The way our current nursery, attached to a school, do it is they write a post about how the child's been, what activities she's done so we can talk about it with her and encourage similar learning at home and will write whether there's been any issues, if she's been upset, if she was tired etc. It's far better than the private nursery I was paying nearly £80 a day for. I actually know what my child's done, if she's happy and how I can help support her from home. The photos are just a nice added touch but to be fair it's usually a video and I can actively see her laughing and engaging with staff so I know they're still managing it because I can actively see them doing it. I'm pretty sure they have a stand to put the ipad on so whilst they're doing activities they just film it from that so they can do both, or it's group activities led by a couple of the staff and another is filming.

They're an excellent nursery and I can't fault a thing they do it's really reassuring as a parent getting so much input and engagement from staff. To be fair the whole school is excellent because I expected once my eldest was in actual school that would stop but I still get a around a post a week with photos and videos of my eldest as well which again is fantastic to help support when you have a child who seems to have forgotten what they've done in school as soon as they've walked out.

If an app helped the childcare workers and made it easier to tick the boxes for who ate their lunch or nappy changes and the like, then brilliant. Ours uses a sheet of paper and a pen but if an ipad would help speed up what they're already doing, then great.

Adding uploading photos, tagging them etc to their workload would not save them time and I wouldn't be in favour of that, in agreement with many on this thread.

Every other nursery does not do this. The EYFS changed and made it more important that staff were interacting with the children that were attending.
Excusing myself from a really fun/lovely activity with your child so that I can get an ipad (of which there are few between all staff btw) take pictures then spend ages uploading photos on a slow connection, tagging each individual child, marking where that child is on the eyfs and then writing up what has just happened takes longer than 10 minutes in my experience. All the while I have children all around me who are wanting a story, needing a nappy changed, wanting to play, have been hurt, need a snack etc... do you see how hard it is?
If I do observations now, I wait till all the children have gone home. I don't get paid for that time, it's in my own personal time when I want to be spending quality time with my own children. So sorry no, I earn 10.45p/h an hour and I don't think i get to give away my precious time time because parents want more photos!
I do a detailed handover with my parents at the end of the day and each of the children in my care are very well looked after.
It is no longer a requirement of the eyfs and so be thankful that means your child is actually getting more attention in the long run rather than being ignored whilst a member of staff stares at a screen.

I00% this. I can't count how many times I've cried over work. And I agree over 99% of the time it's not down to the children. It's down to parents (and management).
And I really despair of the parents who seem to think we only have their child to care for. On a 1:5 ratio it's bloody hard work and we have to care for each of those children equally.
For 1:1 you need a nanny

My old nursery used to do a daily post sent to all parents with random photos from throughout the day, what was for snack, lunch and dinner( we had to note who ate all, most , or some, or none and tailor these to suit each child.. One post sent to all, this took a while to upload, then parents complained their child wasn’t in photos and some complained their child was in photos and it was decided that this was to stop. It was such a faff, taking precious time away from the children.

New nursery used to upload daily stories to EVERY child, (I don’t think parents realise how long his takes, depending on how many key children you have in that day) we have now changed to one meaningful observation a week showing childrens learnings, child’s voice and also a tracker to keep a check on what’s been learned and what needs to be targeted next.

makes more sense.

God help some of these parents when their child starts school and you hear Jack shit from parents!

I work in a preschool (in admin) the staff have lots to do, lots of paperwork, many children now have sen needs with all the extra care and support that takes plus a lot of children are coming in with no rules/routine, badly behaved and parents who just don’t seem interested in parenting! The ladies there do regular photos, mostly group as otherwise individual photos each day would take them away from caring for the children, if it’s a special “wow” moment where a child has achieved something they’ve struggled with, a new friendship etc then they will do individual now and then. As a parent you love getting those updates but please be aware of the pressures on the staff, it doesn’t mean anything is wrong it’s just them making sure your child is being well looked after

I hear what you are saying and agree you’re paying more money and getting less. Regardless of what it is, it’s still less than what they were providing before.

I see this happening all the time in many other sectors. It’s frustrating. They reduce their service and raise their price!! I don’t think it’s going to change for you unfortunately. it’ll just become the norm especially as old clients leave, the new clients won’t question this as they don’t know what was offered before.

Yes, it’s only a small thing but it’s still something that’s important to you and it was provided to you and the other parents for years, I’m sure you’re not the only one who misses it.

You can ask again and yes they will probably see you as “that parent” ( it doesn’t take much for people to think that! ) But you are not wrong to request it, and I’m sure there are some staff there who will understand and maybe take it upon themselves to ensure you get some pics of your child at nursery.

Good luck

@ColleenDonaghy I won’t do the sales pitch but the app I am involved with is predominantly for parent updates - nappies, sleep, meals, accidents, medication etc to replace the endless paper forms. There is the ability to add photos via a newsfeed that is sent to the room or whole nursery. Sort of like here is a photo of the babies doing painting etc rather than hundreds of individual photos. The news feed also replaces emails/newsletters/notes on the floor - remember to bring in nappies or spare clothes etc. they can also upload observations and assessments which previously you would only see on parents evening. The photos make up a small part of the whole value and is just an app that has the ability to replace about 50 different forms. The same work would be completed on a daily basis whether there was an app or not

And like I said I'd be fine with that if it made life easier.

But not one nursery worker on this thread has said that an app makes their life easier or improves the care the children receive. As you acknowledge, you have a vested interest here.

@robhol maybe the child is getting more interaction with staff rather than them spending ages filling in forms and taking photos. Childcare is the service the OP is paying for not a photo shoot

@robhol and the EYFS guidance has changed, it’s not the whim of the nursery. They would be going against the guidance, which OFSTED will judge them on, if they carried on doing what they had been doing for years

I do completely understand and feel exactly the same, I get very limited photos or updates, and there are certainly nurseries local to me that give daily updates. However , I believe that she has a great time there and the staff are lovely, lots of outdoor space and activities . So I just try to remember that and get on with feeling a bit sad about it all😆

Not really social media though is it. I relate to the OP. And in an ideal world I wouldnt be working full time and could afford to live on 1 wage, I appreciate that's not everyone's ideal, but i don't think wanting some pictures from where your child is spending the majority of their waking hours is unreasonable, maybe unfeasible, but not unreasonable

but it's not for the nursery worker to assuage parents guilt .

I don't think so, just a parent who is keen to see what their child is up to occasionally.

No, but they typically welcome ALL feedback and parents concerns. But I think it's about finding the right nursery , some of the nurseries local to me are much more communicative and provide more regular updates , and of course something else will suffer for that. The nursery we use are not like that and I'm unhappy about that, but I believe she loves it there, they have a nice ethos, facility and activities, so I just deal with it.

And people wonder why good nursery staff are leaving in droves and the early years sector are struggling to recruit staff.

As I said up thread, I have worked in childcare for 16 years. I used to adore it. Years ago, we did not have all these electronic devices and online demands to meet and we could just get on with taking care of the children and getting stuck into activities and playing with them, providing good quality care.

Don't get me wrong, it was still a lot of work back then, but at least I didn't have to spend half my day snapping photos, editing photos, uploading photos, writing detailed observations to go with the photos for 20 children, plus dding all the sleeps, meals eaten, nappies etc, while my colleagues struggled to keep the room running smoothly because updating the app essentially takes a staff member away from the room.

I used to absolutely love my job and would bounce into the room in the morning filled with positivity for the day ahead . I've made it my number 1 priority this year to find a new job and leave childcare completely because the demands and stress that have been increasingly placed on us over the last few years, woth no extra pay or recognition, has got unrealistic, unfair, and unbearable.

I manage a nursery. I tell parents we will aim to post a photo a week. I would rather my team be interacting and teaching the child, rather than sat trying to get photos to send to parents. It’s very time consuming and takes them away from engaging!

Our nursery rarely posts photos on the app anymore and I am actually quite happy about it- I think it’s an unnecessary pressure on staff when they have better things to do.

It sounds like you feel quite strongly about this but honestly wouldn’t you prefer that staff were interacting with the children rather than holding up an iPad to their faces to snap pictures of them? Also, it’s not just taking a quick photo, they then have to spend time uploading the photos and tagging them against the correct parent’s account. All of that is time taken away from providing care for your child.

As for knowing what your child is getting up to, have a chat with her on the way home! It’s lovely hearing about their day from their perspective.

Anyone sitting and uploading photos isnt with the children. Settings can't afford spare staff to allow for that much non contact time anymore.
Nobody is being unreasonable to want it, but it isn't the setting you should be annoyed with, rather the level of funding the receive.

God, I wrote an essay sorry! But having had a little window into the inside workings of a couple of nurseries recently and being shocked by what I saw, I felt compelled to comment. A few months ago started a role (I didn't last!) where the manager told me about the fact there were less requirements now for paper work (OP, people are not making this up!) yet in the day to day running of the class, keyworkers (who counted towards ratios and were actively "working" with children) would be constantly tapping on iPads and ignoring the kids. If that's what it's like with less requirements for documentation, I'd hate to see what it was like before! Another nursery I was in had set up an Instagram type photo op for a sensory activity but the only engagement with the children whilst they took part was asking them to smile for the camera.

When I visited the nursery my child now goes to and they told me that they don't have Tapestry (it's all on paper) and each keyworker has an afternoon a week non contact time timetabled for admin I practically bit their hand off!!

It's clear you are angry about paying more for what you perceive as less of a service...

Firstly have you broken it down as to why things now cost more? Cost of staffing has increased (given a lot of nursery staff will be minimum wage). Running costs have increased with energy price rises, food prices etc so this alone would be enough to raise fees without putting any money into the staffing pot.

With regards to understanding why they now "don't have time" to take photos when they did before... There's a number of factors. If they've taken on the new ratios, regardless of if you perceive it as a small change, a member of staff could still be be doing 125% of what they used to (for under 3s). Staffing could have changed. If they employ a teacher in 3+/preschool, they could have 13 kids to look after instead of a previously less qualified member looking after 8. Not to mention that whilst the smaller numbers might be supervised (in ratio) by one member of staff (who might be able to take photos), a different keyworker could be responsible for the admin and uploading of said photos for a significantly larger number of children. Unless you know the qualifications/child allocations for every member of staff, it makes no sense to be thinking the way you are. Also, whilst I'm talking about staffing, you may or may not be aware of the recruitment crisis in this particular sector. If the nursery were previously able to timetable non contact time for admin but have now lost a member of staff (which they might very well struggle to replace), they might still be able to keep up with the legal ratios but only by reducing non contact time... Which would obviously mean less time free to send photos!! Another possibility is that they might have decided to change their working practice and be having staff set up more planned activities per day, they may have started placing more emphasis on interaction with the children. Staff illness is another consideration. Whomever you spoke to at the nursery probably didn't feel they had to explain things in minute detail and felt that they "didn't have time" would suffice. I'm sure you could ask for a break down as to what changes have made time become so limited (but as others have said, that would be putting you in the "that parent" sort of category...).

The one thing I can sort of agree with is it being frustrating when your child only turns up on a couple out of over a hundred group photos. A few things to consider. Firstly, if they're talking group shots to save time, they are not going to be ticking off how many photos they have containing X child so this can happen (not exactly a flawless method). Secondly, it depends who is taking the photos and for what purpose - your child might not have wanted to do the activity being photographed etc. Thirdly, some kids are lovers of the camera and some aren't so getting photos will be easier or harder depending on personality. What I don't think would be totally out of order is mentioning that you didn't see many photos of your child in the update and you're concerned she's not enjoying herself at the moment and see what they say. I know a lot of professionals that bristle when these things are mentioned but if I'd consistently managed to miss out a specific child, I would want to make sure that changed going forward. Depends what your nursery is like tbh as to how the staff would take that. Basically I don't think you can complain about them doing things differently now but having a discussion about your child's happiness and absence from the photos would seem sensible. If you're genuinely still concerned after having that discussion, then look to move her! Its all personal taste and how your child fits in in a certain setting. Settings can and do change over time.

Also (if you made it this far! 😅), I'm not in a nursery now but can I just say to everyone saying it takes 5 seconds to take a photo (and the others who are saying its more the admin than anything else as photos are quick to take) - I am in awe that people are able to do this for each individual child multiple times a day! I honestly find it so hard to take photos and with thirteen 3 year olds to keep eyes on it's like herding kittens!!! I honestly never had a second. And if you're one that's commented about teachers being lethargic and doing nothing, I honestly wouldn't be using that nursery!

• surely a key worker cannot be a key worker for 8 children 😵‍💫

(Pmsl at this expectation - wait until they go to school and you find out there’s one teacher for up to 32 kids 😂)

OP sorry but you have to get over it - I have a folder from my kids’ nursery and it’s a beautiful record with maybe 20 photos over 3 years. There was no such thing as live updates nor did I ever need them. As someone else has said - they’re not there to assuage your guilt. There is a finance and recruitment crisis and early years have to focus resources on what the children need most, and what is best for them - which I imagine has never involved being constantly “papped”.

I don’t think parents realise how much work we do for free, and where I work that includes most of our paperwork. The amount of time I’m allowed for paperwork is pretty non-existent. I get 10 minutes per child per week and I have 10 key children and with the amount of information we have to input I’ll maybe get four or five children done, the rest I have to do at home in my own time. Tapestry was originally supposed to make the staffs life easier so we could stop having to write observations, next steps and “Wow” moments on post its all the time, now if anything, it’s made it significantly harder because of parents expecting photographs all day. To be honest it’s a bloody nightmare.