To not feel sorry for MIL

[Unbeknownsty]

MIL has three sons. She has never been a very 'present' mum to them, she always opted to work over Christmas (key word, opted to, as she didn't like Christmas) never did anything for their birthdays, never went on holiday with them, never hugged them or said she loved them.

As adults, she still doesn't effort with them but moans that no one makes effort with her. She regularly forgets DHs birthday. He phones her every week to check on her but all she does is talk at him.

I refuse to see her as she was very rude to me several times, of course I'd never mind DH seeing her but he just doesn't.

She's recently retired and is now laying a big guilt trip on DH, how lonely she is etc.

This past Christmas no one invited her to theirs, and no family visited her or sent anything. I think she suddenly realised that without work, she actually hasn't got much.

AIBU to think you get what you give?

Again, not my experience or that of my friends. And I had older parents too

I think there was a real school of thought that my doing too much for the child, you would then spoil them. A lot of pleasure was denied to everyone and it really did no one any good but that’s how it was. I was rarely taken to places, not much of a fuss on birthdays and although we had Santa, Christmas was for adults to get drunk. My mother thinks she did a great job and is ‘owed’ a lot by us! I knew a lot of people in a similar position to me

Also @Nanny0gg I am very mindful of this being an passed on as I can sometimes find myself denying for denying sake but hopefully by me mindfully doing things differently things will be different.

To carry a child’s resentment into adulthood is not always for the best.

All that said, in the end I know nothing about OP’s dh background, but I do feel sad for a woman whose kids left her out at Xmas. If we reap what we sow her sons may be in for a reckoning of their own when they get older.

Both of these statements are deeply unpleasant and - ironically - unkind and lacking in compassion. Or are only mothers afforded those?

The first statement smacks of “Get over what happened to you, it was in your childhood”. Any one worth their salt knows that what happens in childhood has a formative effect on the rest of a child’s life. Saying “Don’t carry it forward” (as if you have a choice) is so dismissive.

Your second statement just harks back to the idea that a mother must always be forgiven and excused, purely by dint of Being A Mother, with a nasty dollop of “This might happen to YOU” for good measure.

Yes, parents often reap what they sow and some of them bloody well deserve it. Their children should not be guilt tripped into having to accept and excuse such behaviour. Why should the parents get a pass at the cost of the children who are expected to suffer?

But why would you go to the trouble of lying to your children that you preferred to work, rather than telling them that, sadly, Mummy has to work over Christmas - whether it's because you're rota'd and can't avoid it or you rely on the extra pay to make ends meet?

Depression is crushing, but when you have small children, you have to find a way to put them first.

SerafinasGoose

I disagree that it's OK for women to say No to caring for their children, if they have children. Just as it is 100% not OK for men to opt out of being a proper father, just because a lot of them nevertheless do decide to be selfish deadbeats.

There are people out there who will quite freely admit that they want to put themselves first and enjoy their own lives - they may even describe themselves as 'selfish'; and thus they don't marry and they don't have children. That's entirely their choice to make and very reasonable.

I really like dogs, and happily admire other people's; but I wouldn't want to have to commit to it and restrict my own life and freedoms with all the time and care that they need, so I wouldn't for a moment consider getting one. Why anybody would have that same attitude to children - other humans that require years of dedication and care - and yet still choose to have them, is completely beyond me.

@CoveredInSnow, I completely agree with your comments here. The 'reap what you sow' mantra doesn't exactly work like this. You behave a certain way to someone, therefore the way they respond at a later stage might reflect that earlier behaviour. That's a simple correlation of actions = consequences.

OP's DH will (in a just world, and we know the world isn't always just) reap the consequences of the nature of the relationships he builds with his own children. His relationship with his mother doesn't come into that equation at all. Given what OP describes, the relationship has been so distant in the past that this is now what they're used to. It's therefore not even a question of modelling healthy adult relationships to the children. This, obviously, was MiL's own choice.

This sort of 'it may come back to bite you' argument is the same one often trotted out to the tune of, 'I'd better be nice to my MiL, because I might be a MiL myself one day!' This has nothing at all to do with the relationship any future DiL might have with you.

I suspect people who expect payback to work in their favour in this way are going to end up very disappointed at some point down the line.

I suppose if she's role modelled coldness and lack of care for her sons it shouldn't come as a shock they've turned into cold uncaring men who'd leave their mother on her own at Christmas. Not sure I'd be too happy if I were married to one of them though!

I've not read all replies so sorry if it's been asked, but has oh spoke to his brothers about it?

How exactly would you expect them (as children) to have learned kindness and consideration for others, if their mother (lots of us have asked, but we have no idea about their father) has deliberately taught them in their formative years not to care about or consider other people?

Is she expecting them to unlearn what she has pointedly taught them throughout (and in fact is still consistently modelling), so that they can become the kind of adults that she really wants them to be? Sounds rather foolish to me.

Your DH is getting it as he's the only one who speaks to her. Like @LadyDanburysHat says, you reap what you sow!

I think if we knew about MILs background OP then it could help get a clearer picture. Where is their dad- Her partner/husband?

I'm not sure what you think is foolish? I said it shouldn't come as a shock that role modelling cold uncaring behaviour leads (sometimes) to cold uncaring adults. What about that are you disagreeing with, as you seem to be saying the same thing?

Who says the sons are cold and uncaring just because they didn’t invite their mother for Christmas, when the same mother had never bothered with Christmas when it suited her? Why could it not be the case that they’re perfectly nice people but they just don’t want much to do with a relative who didn’t treat them particularly well? Why would that not be OK?

Like many others here I agree that you reap what you sow. She is selfish and lacks self awareness. F**k her! And your DH is doing more than she deserves.

Since the OP hasn't returned to share where the father is it's hard to judge.

Also when she worked on Christmas did she announce to the children shed rather work than be with them? Or is that just what they assumed.

A lot of unanswered questions leading me to suspect there is much more to the story.

That doesn't negate her dh's feelings or his brothers.

It just adds more complexity than the mom is an evil narcissist which many people get called on here.

Sorry, I'm not saying that you are foolish, but the mother is, if she planted cabbage seeds and expects to get carrots.

I disagree that they are cold uncaring men, though. Their mother has disregarded them and shown them a deliberate lack of kindness their whole lives, so they're just not being doormats.

As for saying you'd not be happy to be married to one of them, maybe they're also protecting themselves - and their own children - from her toxic behaviour and influence.

She set out her stall from when they were little that she didn't want - or want anybody else - to enjoy Christmas; and in stark contrast, it sounds like they do now want their families to enjoy Christmas, so they are acting accordingly to protect that wish and atmosphere. Imagine trying to make Christmas a wonderful, special, loving occasion altogether with the Grinch sitting in the corner all day, with a face like a smacked arse!

Working mothers should heed this thread

most of us work

we have child care

we are feckless and unworthy of attention in old age

This is a click bait thread, and there are a LOT of them this week alone

These things click with people at some point. I remember as a child wanting to cuddle up to my mom and literally being pushed away. And I can't remember ever being told that she (or my dad) loved any of us.

That said they made a good effort at Christmas and birthdays and holidays were based on being child friendly (up to a point...)

Then suddenly when my folks hit their 60s they discovered hugging their children (by now all well over 30) and kissing them the thing to do. And a phone call or zoom never ends before we all express our love for each other. Except for 1 brother who finds it all immensely embarrassing. And so we all blow him lots of kisses and gush with affection. But it did take a while to get used to this! Maybe 10 years for me??

I see the same with an ex older work colleague of mine. Her husband had 2 kids with his ex wife before her. She never wanted anything to do with them, to extremes, wdnt tell him they'd called etc, u get the drift. After he passed away she has nothing, no friends and no idea about anything in the house, she can't even turn on the TV in the lounge. I think his 2 kids do the minimum for her, never invite her for Xmas or anything. She never wanted kids, wdve taken the attention off her and been far too much work. Now she understands why. U reap what u sow indeed.

That’s disingenuous bollocks and you know it.

Lots of mothers work, they still manage to be emotionally available to their children, make an effort at Christmas (even if they don’t like it themselves) and not indulge in the crappy behaviours OP has outlined in her posts.

Why can’t you accept that some mothers are shit and actually cause the problems of which they complain?

Two questions. Did mil work holidays for the extra pay? If she used the extra money to provide for her children then perhaps that was her way of showing love.
Is she on the spectrum? Maybe she doesn’t have the touchy feely senses that we’d like to see in parents.

I would maybe take her out to lunch on her birthday and maybe even Mother’s Day to see how things go. She is not going to become a different person but maybe you can tolerate her in small doses.

Prime case of narcissistic personality disorder. This is 1 where u know,or u don't know. Anyone who has a relative with this can relate, if u haven't experienced it personally then it's very difficult to understand. My mum is like this, it all has to be about her, they moan no end and have no friends

I don’t believe you necessarily reap what you sow, which is why I said IF, meaning that If the philosophy is true it holds for the sons too, for all of us in fact.

I don’t believe any parent should always be forgiven but for me there isn’t enough evidence of neglect or mistreatment here for me to pass judgement. if the mum was leaving the kids to go off and party I would find that a very different story but she was working.

And if I meant that they should get over it I would have said that.

My single parent mother had to work all the hours she could and I was neglected by default. As a child I missed her so much and didn’t quite understand why she couldn’t be with us. It was only when I grew up that I fully understood how much she had sacrificed. She got ill - mentally and physically -?in order to provide for her family.