That if your male child has shoulder length hair it's reasonable to expect other kids will pass comment?

[mrsfinch6]

Dropping DS5 and DS3 off at nursery this morning when the nursery manager took me aside and wanted to “discuss an incident that happened yesterday” I was a bit confused because when I had collected them both the day before everything was fine.

The “incident” was that there is a little boy at nursery with shoulder length, curly blonde hair, and DS3 has been calling him a girl.

The parent of this child went into nursery this morning to report to the staff that my DS was calling him a girl. The nursery manager wanted my assurances that I would be firm with DS at home and have “the conversation” regarding this.

AIBU to say that if you have a 4 year old male child with long blonde hair that it is realistic to expect that other children in that age group will pass comment?

DS3 is very much of the opinion that “pink is for girls, blue is for boys, girls wear dresses and boys wear trousers etc” he only likes typical boys toys, whereas DS5 is a bit less bothered, he picked a pink scooter and is partial to a unicorn, I don’t encourage or discourage either way, however I do believe in sex not gender and whilst I appreciate there are a multitude of reasons why this child has long hair, I don’t think it’s my 3 year olds issue tbh

They are very young kids and yes I have spoken to him and reiterated that we don’t tease other kids and that it’s not kind to pass comment on others appearance but honestly? Reporting it to the nursery? Talk about extreme.

“He is a very young child who (quite rightly) thinks that boys have short hair and girls have long hair.”

Quite rightly? How odd. I had a pixie cut for a decade, does that make me a boy?

It isn’t unusual for kids to notice, but longer hair isn’t unusual nowadays. How hard is it to say “yes, on the whole girls do have longer hair than boys, but not always. You can have your hair however you want! Besides, it isn’t kind to comment on what people look like, it can hurt their feelings”.

Bloody hell.

The little boys in who wear Frozen dresses and have long hair are the little boys who are being brought up to understand that they can express themselves however they see fit and still be male. They're the same little boys who might wear Action Man (probably showing my age ha) costumes and play football and who have caregivers who don't bat an eyelid because it's ok for them to like whatever they like and wear whatever they want to wear and - shock horror - they still deserve respect and to feel valued. Those children will grow up with a sense of intrinsic self-worth, based around the knowledge that they are loved, valued and accepted for who they are no matter what they look like.

The little boys who are not allowed to wear Frozen dresses, have long hair, pink clothes, play with dolls, whatever it might be, will grow up understanding that they only have value and acceptability if they conform to a certain way of being. They will also use this world view to judge others and decide who is acceptable and who isn't based on narrow stereotypes. Their self-worth will not be intrinsic but will be predicated on having to look a certain way, like certain things and on looking down on others who choose differently.

I know which group I want my children to fall into.

Your child isn’t the problem, you are! Clearly he is learning his outdated views from you.

I doubt the issue was raised over your child saying it once. People wonder why there are so many asshole children out there all they need to do is look at the parents.........

Nobody disagrees with this, if that is the case, and her little boy hasn't been calling him a girl after being told otherwise.

What people have taken issue with are the OP's comments about it being fine for other children to "pass comment" on a boy with long hair and they should just accept it as part of their choice and about her DS3's beliefs (which clearly come from her) about gender and acceptability.

YABU - yes it's outside of the norm and you don't have to tell your DS off but you can have a conversation about how, no, long hair is not for girls and of course short hair is not only for boys etc. How about breaking down some of those learned stereotypes rather than shrugging and assuming that it's fine and normal.

I have long haired boys I get this all the time it's a bit irritating tbf especially when they are teens with im a BOY on their tshirts

Have I not said repeatedly that I have had these conversations with him?!

You have got to be kidding right???
Of course boys and have long hair and girls can have short hair.
Stop teaching your child to be a bully.

I read your post as suggesting it would be foolish to bring a child up as unisex. If I have read you right, then what are the boundaries/distinctions between boys and girls and how does society effectively regulate them? For you, it shouldn't be haircuts, but what should it be?

I think there are important differences between men and women and society needs to impose restrictions on men for the safeguarding of women. For that to happen boys need to know they are boys and one way is through haircuts.

So many MNers seems to want 2 contradictory things. They don't want any restrictions placed on people because of their sex but they, like me, want women's safe spaces - toilets, prison, single-sex sport, men not being allowed to care for non-related children, no teasing of women (the more a man likes a man the more he rips it out of him), prohibitions on men touching women in the work place which wouldn't apply to women touching women and prohibitions on men making personal comments about women in the work place that wouldn't apply to women commenting on women - largely because of the power imbalance, expecting men to cross the road if they are close to a woman in a deserted area etc, etc, etc.
I say let boys know they are boys.

Which is great, but you still seem to believe underneath that the little boy in question has invited comment and unkindness on himself for daring to be a boy with long hair.

Whether or not you've had those conversations, your underlying views are clear, and your children will pick up on them.

Well the issue with TRAs is around single sex spaces, equity and consent. So I would imagine bringing them up to respect single sex spaces, equity and consent would be the way to avoid that.

I cannot see any way in which forcing boys to have short hair would teach them to respect any of that.

Forcing boys to conform visually to gender norms helps TRAs, doing so makes you part of the problem not the solution

I know of five-year-old girl/boy twins. The girl has her hair in a shoulder length bob. The boy’s hair falls almost to his waist. I assume they chose these hairstyles and enjoy having it like this. Why shouldn’t they?!

😂

So many MNers seems to want 2 contradictory things. They don't want any restrictions placed on people because of their sex

Saying boys can grow their hair long is not the same as saying no sex based restrictions

• but they, like me, want women's safe spaces - toilets, prison, single-sex sport,k

Yep nothing hair related here

men not being allowed to care for non-related children,

WTactualF do you really believe that women are saying that men shouldnt be teachers, or youth workers, or carers, or work in a nursery etc seriously?!

no teasing of women

That just sounds like the age old "waaaah we arent allowed to say anything to women any more" nonsense used to try to justify sexist behaviour
(the more a man likes a man the more he rips it out of him),

I don't understand this point

prohibitions on men touching women in the work place which wouldn't apply to women touching women

Nope I'm all for prohibitions on unwanted touching from people

prohibitions on men making personal comments about women in the work place that wouldn't apply to women commenting on women

Such as.....

- largely because of the power imbalance, expecting men to cross the road if they are close to a woman in a deserted area etc, etc, etc.

Yep that would be nice, but its certainly not a restriction its request, I have certainly seen no posts demanding its made a law

I say let boys know they are boys.

Yeah because boys being boys certainly leads to an environment women feel safe in

The person making the contradictions in what they want is you.

YABU

Of course the parent has a right to say something to nursery and for them say something to you. At 3 years old, he's old enough for you to have a discussion to say that it's not very nice and boys can have long hair.
I don't understand your reactions, you are the one being over the top!

I'm picturing Jason Momoa body and hair but with a 3yr old face 😂😂

You may well have clarified this, but is your son doing it knowing the child is infact a boy, or has he thought all along this child is a girl?

These 2 are very very different things, if your child thinks the child is a girl based on their long hair then YANBU.

However, if your son is "teasing" the child by calling him a girl BECAUSE he has long hair then YABU.

Education starts early. You need to teach him right from wrong and some manners! Yabu

A lot of the things that unify your list of "what MNs want" can be boiled down to "bodily autonomy and safety" including not being in situations of feeling that those are potentially threatened.
If you are letting people have control of their own bodies (provided this doesn't interfere with other people having control of their own bodies too), then surely letting everyone pick their own hairstyle comes along with that suite of desires, not counter to it?

If you are trying to argue that "boys need to know they are boys" then presumably one of your underlying assumptions is that they shouldn't believe they are girls - but which is more likely to make a boy who likes the idea of having long hair think they must be a girl? 1) letting them grow it and be a boy with long hair, or 2) telling them that only girls want long hair (so they don't grow it but internally consider this as mounting evidence that they must be a girl instead)? So even from this point of view it doesn't really work...

Children do need to know what sex they are

But they also need to know that mostly sex doesn't matter

Using hair or clothes or even names to signify sex seems totally unnecessary

Don't make assumptions about any child's likes , personality , capabilities on the basis of their sex unless it's directly related- like peeing standing up

With names I would say society isn't ready for that - with hair length however society in the uk was past that in the 1960s

You are BVVU.

You're allowing your child to head towards being a full on bully.

My 6 year old son has long blonde curly hair. He is occasionally mistaken for a girl but his friends and schoolmates have never called him a girl and then continued it. Even when they were 3.

As for believing 'quite rightly' that all boys should have short hair, you seem a bit odd.

I still stand by my original statement that if a 4 year old child has shoulder length, curly blonde hair then it is to be expected that other children in that age group will pass comment.

But why would they? there is no need to comment on it, and the only reason they would think it was different or wrong is because that is what they have been taught by their parents/family

Clearly he has said it more than once, as the other child complained.

The “incident” was that there is a little boy at nursery with shoulder length, curly blonde hair, and DS3 has been calling him a girl.

has been calling - that is not an isolated incident

While I totally agree with your post I'm of the thought that if these mean kids continue to be told by everyone in their path that their mean behaviour isn't acceptable they should, hopefully get the message.

It's when you've got that one person who 9 times out of 10 is a close relative standing behind them telling them they're not doing anything wrong that causes the problems.