To think there shouldn't be measles outbreaks?

[fatandhappy47]

Surely we shouldn't be having an issue with measles?
Had an email from school (secondary) 'reminding' us to keep kids off with measles, which got me thinking

All my kids band my friends kids of the same age had their MMR (however my youngest did get measles before this)

So why is it an issue in secondary schools of all places? Are people just not vaccinating their kids?

This is not what the study says.
This is a narrow study that models the transmission of a particular measles outbreak in the affected Orthodox Jewish community in NYC over nine months in 2018-2019
A community where the vaccination rate in 1-4 year olds was low and a vaccination campaign resulted in a lowered susceptibility in that age group which appeared to contain the outbreak. Of course, people took that as it was over and an increase in contact in the 1-4 age group saw cases spread again. As one 'explanation' for this, the research points to 'reports of measle parties'. No actual evidence of this other than they had 'heard' this was going on and therefore that may have caused the second wave

His report, despite being discredited, is still believed by many and quoted in their arguments against vaccinations.

I'm not so sure about that.

One of the vaccines you need to have to enter Saudi Arabia has pork derivatives, so every muslim that goes on Haj has to have it.

@Ellysetta I saw something about a parent not wanting to vaccinate because of the 'risk'. The Dr explained it is like wearing a seatbelt in a car. There is a slight risk that if your car set on fire you could be stuck inside an unable to get out.

But there is a bigger risk of you being harmed in a crash without a seatbelt.

I thought it was quite a good explanation.

Wellno. Ihad meas,les really badly as a child 4 years after having the jab.

Don't see why the can't just offer the pork product free vaccine universally then there would be no religious issues without having to do checks etc

I a,so remember the MMR scenario. What I don't get is why ( knowing people were worried,) the government didn't give the option of having single measles jab or more rather than force more or nothing if you couldn't afford to get single jabs done privately. Would've meant more kids did have vaccines

@ZebraDanios, It is tough though. I wonder how much teachers can do.
You have a teacher trying to convey something so that the not very bright and uninterested 13 year old will get it. "Vaccines stop you getting the disease" works on that level, but then thirty years later, that dim bored pupil is an ego manic who thinks they are an expert and they were taught "Vaccines stop you getting the disease", so when a vaccine means you have an immune response that limits the impact of the disease, they think they have a Gotcha!

I often thing the difference between academic talks on one hand and with industry or pop science (e.g. TED talks), is the former leave you much better informed and feeling stupid, the latter leave you slighlty better informed and feeling clever. The latter is clearly more dangerous, but obviously far more fun.

@sashh, I can understand, I think, the problem. You are presenting their child being harmed in two way, one of which will not be their fault (child gets ill) and one will be (the take the vaccine that makes them autistic). It is hard for a parent to choose the latter (even though it is BS) and to make them both the parents fault seems atrocious.

One of the vaccines you need to have to enter Saudi Arabia has pork derivatives, so every muslim that goes on Haj has to have it

Just wondering which vaccine you mean - must be a travel vaccine that isn't on the UK schedule? But the only requirement I found listed on FCDOA page was for meningitis ACWY, and the version used by NHS does not contain porcine products

Don't see why the can't just offer the pork product free vaccine universally then there would be no religious issues without having to do checks etc

A highly refined form of gelatine is used widely in medicines (capsules) as well as in vaccines. It's used because it's effective as a stabiliser and is readily available in large quantities for manufacture. So I suspect it comes down to ease of handling and, of course, cost.

One of the anti vaxxing home educating parents I know just posted on her Instagram, saying the only reason the "mainstream media" is now "pushing" the MMR is because people are now "waking up" to "big pharma" and the powers that be don't like it as will mean they can't control people or make money.

There is no arguing with these people because any evidence you show them they say is funded or invented by "big pharma". You might as well be talking to your kitchen sink for all the good it does.

You can't argue with them. The only that will contradict their world view is a child they know becoming seriously unwell or dying from measles. It's so sad.

My kids have had this but am i right in thinking is MMR the one that some parents say causes autism?!!! 🤦🏻‍♀️ i cannot fathom why parents wont vaccinate their kids. We nearly irradiated it in the uk and then some parents decide to jump on the band wagon and not have it …. And here we are

Sadly too make people value drama over the welfare of their own child, being an anti-vaxxer likely satisifies their need for attention.

Unfortunately some people do still believe this . I never understood it as even if there was a risk of autism surely it’s better to have an autistic child than a dead child ??

The crazy thing is the paper that was originally behind the MMR scare is terrible.
I confess, that I was in a lab where scientists would occasionally bring in medical papers just to laugh at how bad they were. But the Wakefield one is so bad that you do not need ot be a scientist to see it is terrible, you can read it yourself and see that it is nuts.
There is a good reason for medical papers having lower barriers to publication. There should be a venue for things you see but do not have time to investigate properly, but this was trying to have the best of both worlds.

I think there was research shown that for some reason giving MMR all together made each of the vaccines more effective than giving them separately. I think it was something about the immune response.

It was also the case that quite a high proportion of people didn't follow all the injections through. So they'd have one, maybe a second, but not the third. And we're also much less likely to go for the booster. It's 6 appointments rather than 2, so you can understand why.
Obviously if it was privately done that is also potentially 3x the charge too, so you can imagine a parent thinking that rubella isn't normally serious so they won't worry about it. I don't know if that data was from a point you could get them done separately on the NHS.

It's not even about autism for the dimwit antivaxxers I know - it's about "toxins" and "poison" in the vaccines.

I'm fine, know I had mine at the time, pretty impossible round here to get a GP appointment though and no way would this request past the receptionist.

I think this is so important that NHS should do a bulk mailing to people who missed out when they were young.

I know I had missed some vaccinations. GP could not see it on my record but said he was sure I would have had them all. I said I knew I had not and said what I had missed. I was given an MMR vaccination, all free.

If I was born in the early 80s would I have had MMR? If not, should I request it?

But by not giving the option of measles jabs separately many parents didn't get them at all whereas they mightve been happy with a single measles vax. So kind of made matters worse the govt removing choice. Instead of choice off mmr Single or nothing it went to mmr or nothing. Lots of kids missed out

You wouldn't have had the MMR but would probably have had the single measles vaccination assuming your parents were living a conventional lifestyle - if you didn't have the vaccine then measles rates were high enough in the mid eighties that you possibly had it.

If they had given the option of single jabs antvaxxers would use it as evidence the MMR was dangerous. They would probably still be using it today.

I think the reasoning was that if they offered single jabs then they would be undermining the advice given that MMR was safe. Better to have 2 injections with 2 appointments than trying to fit 6 appointments in with more likelihood of some getting missed out.

Sorry if someone has already said this, but Mumps can be particularly unpleasant for adult men and can leave them infertile.
Catching Rubella (German Measles) can seriously damage an unborn child, to the extend of them being deaf and blind.
How can anyone imagine that vaccinations are not worthwhile?

Some I have come across recently: Fear of autism (unfounded, due to the discredited doctor who made up a link), especially in certain communities. Fear that the Covid vaccine is being ‘put into’ all vaccines. General fear of vaccines.
Vaccination rates are down to significantly less than 90% overall (95% is the minimum required for herd immunity), and down to 60% in some parts of the country.