To think there shouldn't be measles outbreaks?

[fatandhappy47]

Surely we shouldn't be having an issue with measles?
Had an email from school (secondary) 'reminding' us to keep kids off with measles, which got me thinking

All my kids band my friends kids of the same age had their MMR (however my youngest did get measles before this)

So why is it an issue in secondary schools of all places? Are people just not vaccinating their kids?

The thing is, antivaxers truly believe that vaccines poison people. So they believe they are doing the right thing even though they aren't. They usually have an inherent mistrust of people in general, not even just science. My daughter's dad is one. I've had to get all her vaccinations done behind his back. Luckily, our GP surgery will do the vaccines if the parent with care asking for them.

Some of us remember because we lived it.

The first immunisations were rolled out in 1968, and coverage wasn't terribly good until the early 1970s. There were still lots of people (mainly children, but also some adults) catching it - numbers declined during the 1970s (before immunisation, it was average 400,000 cases a year (but came in waves, so the range was roughly 160,000 to 760,000)

So if you were born before 1970, there's a very high chance you've had it (and so might remember exactly what it was like for you and your siblings) - and because of this you're excluded from any adult MMR catch up because NHS assumes you are immune. If you were around in the 1970s, you might still have had it as rates were still mainy over 100,000 (range 55,000 - 173,000) and of course your parents would definitely remember it.

Less so after that. But that's still a lot of living memory - over 50s very likely to know, over 40s possibly would. Plus a smaller number thereafter - but with pockets who would know well, such as those caught up in the Welsh outbreak in 12/13 (either directly or from the news reports)

It should be mandatory for a child to be fully vaccinated before they access public schooling.

Yes but I'm talking about the parents of young children today who are the ones who won't have seen what measles is like. They are the ones with a larger number than before deciding not to vaccinate.

There shouldn't be, as NHS uses two formulations of MMR

MMR VaxPro (contains gelatine)
Priorix (does not contain gelatine or any other pork derivative)

So there's no reason not to have MMR in religious grounds, though parents would need to check they are getting a version they find acceptable.

Priorix (does not contain gelatine or any other pork derivative)

So why on earth not advertise this properly? Generally speaking, you are not told what vaccine you are getting when you go for a jab. Covid was IMO something of an exception.

I always think of the Smallpox vaccine riots which happened throughout the 19th century in both the UK and the rest of the world. In fact the anti-vax movement has been around for much longer that one would expect. Smallpox was known as ‘the speckled monster’, a virus which left sufferers blind and/or permanently disfigured. You would think that a vaccine that prevented such horrors would be welcomed.

But the end result as we know from history is that Smallpox was eradicated and that was because of the vaccine. Vaccination works.

I had it ( cusp of that era) and most people my age did have Measles Proper ( as well as rubella)
Does having a case of Measles Proper as a child give lifelong immunity?

Some anti-vaxxers know vaccines are a good thing but they don’t want to actually make their own children have them so they don’t, knowing that if everyone else vaccinates their kids then theirs are safer because of herd immunity.

Fair enough

I took "most people" to refer to the whole population, not those under the age of roughly 40.

It has left me wondering how today's uptake rates compare to those from about 1997 - 2002 (the first 5 years after the single measles jab's licence was allowed to expire, whilst Wakefield was not fully debunked - parents then would have been born in the 60s and 70s and would very likely know through lived experience)

@oakleaffy
Does having a case of Measles Proper as a child give lifelong immunity?

Yes it does

Does having a case of Measles Proper as a child give lifelong immunity?

Yes

(caveat: nothing in biology is 100%, but this one is close as it gets)

In "The Family from One End Street", which is set in the 1930s (published in 1950s), the oldest girl who gets measles is sent to an isolation hospital (no choice given to the parents) and the other children are put in quarantine.

They are told when they come back that the children need a holiday too, which sounds a very good idea.

So there's no reason not to have MMR in religious grounds, though parents would need to check they are getting a version they find acceptable.

the 'major' religions explicitly exclude medicines (including vaccines) from 'unclean' or banned items.

The alarming spread of measles in Birmingham has partly been caused by misinformation and ignorance about this. There are many children and some adults seriously ill in hospital as a result.

But if they aren't aware there is another variant available (I wasn't until it was mentioned here), then maybe they will abstain completely! I think that needs advertised more and offered to all Muslims as an option.

I don't care where the vaccine comes from, as long as my child is protected, but I don't have particular religious beliefs.

Even if I did, I'd still choose it anyway, as I wouldn't want to risk my child's health because of a religion.

Sorry - I misunderstood your last post.

So religion says you can have these vaccines and it doesn't mean you contradict your beliefs, but they still choose not to? Bonkers.

I think everyone was concerned when Wakefield suggested a link with Autism but at that point no one was sure whether it was true or not. Also people I knew considered single vaccines rather than no vaccine at all. The main problem with that was cost as you had to pay privately but plenty of people did pay so I'm not sure if the MMR coverage rates at the time are a true reflection of immunity to measles in the population.

Thanks!
I remember the misery of it so well- I wouldn’t wish it on any child. ( Or adult).

Ah, thought I'd seen it somewhere! 😂

It's hard to believe this shit actually happened. It was positively dystopian.

And people genuinely wonder why there's now a resistence to scheduled vaccines...

Before measles vaccinations were offered, I had measles as a 5 year old. I have never felt so ill since. It was truly horrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone so ifyou haven't already, get your kids the MMR.
With measles and rubella there are risk of deafness, blindness, death and rubella can harm unborn babies if the mother 8n t vaccinated.

The thing we know now that we didn't know twenty years ago, was that even the mild cases of measles that most of the population had and which we recovered from with no apparent ill effects, can knacker your immune system, leaving you vulnerable to unrelated diseases.

With hindsight a proportion of the child deaths in the past which were attributed to flu or some other virus as the proximate cause were partially due to a prior case of measles.

I do genuinely wonder how reports that people were offered burgers or hookers in the US if they got a covid vaccine would make people decide that it would be no problem for their child to get measles actually.

@CecilyP the vaccine

this is the country where it looks likely Trump will be back. Honestly, i will believe anything can go down there