To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

Which is why we should stop fighting each other, find acceptable common ground and try to agree on compromises that protect the safety and dignity of two vulnerable groups of people.

So where is the common ground going to be found @ubiquity because it seems to me women are vilified for saying No to all males in single sex spaces?

The TRAs want all of society to be set up on the basis of gender. Women need it to be based on sex.

It is very difficult to see ANY common ground where the TRAs refuse to see that women are being harmed by mixed sex spaces and need single sex spaces.

The reason that people think that 'gender-critical' is right wing is because all of the leading GC organisations supported attacks on Gillick competence, cosy up to anti-abortionists, attack LGBT charities, attack rape crisis and then say they're 'politically homeless' while cheering on the disgusting Suella Braverman. The extreme right were rubbing their hands with glee I would think.

No they haven't. Anyone who does this either doesn't understand what GC means, muddying the water to the benefit of RW politicians (which is why I made this thread) or is straight up lying about being GC.

So how is accusing women of being anti trans and blaming them for right wing movements going to solve the issue?

It’s not for women to shut up in case the tories get in. It’s Labours responsibility to tackle the issues. Not quietly slink away and be scared of tackling them.

Yes, this. The Tories have only been able to capitalise on the slightest suggestion that women might possibly be allowed some rights or even a say, because Labour won't say anything.

Do you actually think that 1000s of left leaning, bright, ordinary women, a lot of them having been politically active, all of a sudden got seduced by the right? By the likes of Trump or Johnson? If that's what you think happened, you really have a low opinion of women.

I didn't leave the left, it left me. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, have all made it very clear that they don't want my vote, they've chosen to prioritise the wants of males with special feelings over the rights or safety of women.

all of the leading GC organisations supported attacks on Gillick competence, cosy up to anti-abortionists, attack LGBT charities, attack rape crisis

Please do provide the evidence you have that the 'leading GC organisations' have done all or any of this. Actually while you're there, please name 3 of these leading GC organisations.

try to agree on compromises that protect the safety and dignity of two vulnerable groups of people

The issue here is that it's clear 'trans people' aren't just one group of people. They encompass a range of cohorts. Some of which I agree are vulnerable. Others not so much.

Some of these sub sections very aggressively reject compromises like Third spaces. Which is opening peoples eyes.

We need to do what's right for society as a whole.

The reason that people think that 'gender-critical' is right wing is because all of the leading GC organisations supported attacks on Gillick competence, cosy up to anti-abortionists, attack LGBT charities, attack rape crisis and then say they're 'politically homeless' while cheering on the disgusting Suella Braverman

🙄

So I'm not a feminist and generally reject isms for myself and it's hard to find discussion online about GC without the F. I'm not religious, I'm not conservative, very much live and let live, I don't read much by way of right wing press and other than 2 very different forums I don't use social media.

I would consider myself GC but interested to see where in the spectrum of hate you put me.

And don't even get me started on the racism and antisemitism prevalent in the GC movement

🙄

Common ground meaning that men's wants trump women's needs presumably?

I didn't leave the left, it left me. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, have all made it very clear that they don't want my vote, they've chosen to prioritise the wants of males with special feelings over the rights or safety of women

Very much this.

Last year there was thread on FWR attacking the creators of the film Adult Human Female because they were left wing and turned Matt Walsh down. There wasn't much feminist solidarity for the film makers. Why? To push the narrative that the left is always wrong.

A narrative heavily pushed by those with a RW agenda, not a feminist or GC agenda.

Last year there was thread on FWR attacking the creators of the film Adult Human Female because they were left wing and turned Matt Walsh down. There wasn't much feminist solidarity for the film makers. Why? To push the narrative that the left is always wrong.

I lurk on fwr a lot @TooBigForMyBoots . Enough to know that you often derail reasonable threads with right wing accusations. Receipts or it didn't happen. Link the thread.

Do these claims EVER come with any examples? Come someone at least try.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Do you view it as valid opposition?

Like I said I'm not religious but it seems funny (in both directions) using one imaginary scenario to attack another. Either you respect the things that people make up or you don't. A genuinely held belief should always be accommodated?

When I was a kid I thought that cats were all female and dogs were all male and that they were the same animal. How popular would such a concept need to be before everyone else had to accept it as true?

Last year there was thread on FWR attacking the creators of the film Adult Human Female because they were left wing and turned Matt Walsh down. There wasn't much feminist solidarity for the film makers. Why? To push the narrative that the left is always wrong.

That really wasn't the main issue with that film.

Common ground meaning that men's wants trump women's needs presumably?

Ultimately, why are women even involved here? If men have problems in men's spaces, because of other men - why is that women's issue?

Not everyone. Some hate us but most don't give a shit about us either way and are happy to use women as pawns to further their own political agenda. Sowing division and discord among us. Once they get what they want feminists, especially the GC kind will be relegated to wokerati and looney left.

What was the main issue?

Not getting into that here.

As far as I can tell, most GC people absolutely believe in gender stereotypes they just insist they're immutable biological sex differences instead.

Nice piece of gaslighting. I'm sure it sounded good in your head. You do understand what an immutable biological difference is?

It's the complete opposite but you gave it a good try, bless you.

As far as I can tell most tra people absolutely believe in gender stereotypes because it's all they've got to go on