Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

What middle ground? Awaits a load of word salad.

Here’s one from just a few posts above you:

Because they want to pretend that there is no difference between a real woman and a transwoman and they are abusive males who don't care about the price real women pay for that. They are out and out supremacists and want women to know their place and serve them by forgoing their own needs to look after the precious men.

i don’t see how anyone can claim that calling trans women as a group “abusive” “supremacists” who want “women to know their place and serve them” is not transphobic?

Remember that “phobia” against a particular group people is a fear, dislike, hatred, negative attitudes etc against that group.

I don't see how men invading women's spaces is anything other than narcissistic supremacy. Those TW who know they are men and defend women's spaces are great but sadly an exception in amongst the vile ones. So my hatred is towards men who invade women's spaces and adulterated language not all TW. So not transphobia. You, however, are defending abusers.

Most TW won't accept that. Clearly this is what we should be aiming for and anything else is male supremacy.

The “middle ground” is understanding that while gender is strongly related to biological sex, it is not absolutely determined by it.

The middle ground would be to understand that spaces are not segregated by gender but by sex (which can't change) and to understand that many people have no gender at all and it should never be conflated with sex. letting males into female spaces ia not middle ground.

TW who “know they are men” are “great”?

Ugh. The gaslighting.

I do understand a lot of the points being made. I think I just read about this conversation say on mums net. Then go into day to day life (where I have a safeguarding role) and see women suffering and never has any of their suffering been attributed to a trans woman. Or their presence in any of the spaces, toilets, women’s refuges, prisons etc.

Their issues all relate to abusive straight men who are openly abusive straight men. Not men hiding behind the guise of wanting to be women.

Why do you think that anyone here thinks that "gender" is absolutely determined by biological sex?

What do you mean by gender, by the way? Gender identity, gender expression, gender presentation, something else or a combination of these?

Every now and then on these threads there are a few voices of reason. Thank you for yours.

But what even is gender?

The “middle ground” is understanding that while gender is strongly related to biological sex, it is not absolutely determined by it.

I don't believe in "gender" as anything more than sex stereotypes.

Your responses are ridiculous.Yes. TW who know they're men are the only ones really expanding the boundaries of old fashioned stereotypes. That is good in my opinion. There is no reason why dress should be seen as something only women wear and I like challenges to those rigid rules. But carry on flinging out silly insults rather than discussing if you want. You're showing the TRA tactics really well and the lack of substance is clear.

Their issues all relate to abusive straight men who are openly abusive straight men. Not men hiding behind the guise of wanting to be women.

And openly abusive straight men are now being given new and innovative ways to access women and create further misery. All they have to do is say they're women!

I thought you had stuff to do @Tandora or are you just feeling the need to have your arse served up to you repeatedly?

But women have been abused by men who demand to be called women. So it matters in real life.

Yes it’s a good question.

i meant gender identity. I try to avoid the word identity . as it’s come to have so many negative connotations, and to many it signifies that we are discussing something trivial, superficial, “modern”, to do with identity politics etc.
but there is nothing trivial , superficial or modern about gender identity.

And the GC position is that the claim “I am a woman” is the exclusive reserve of those born with a vagina, womb, xx chromosome, (working) ova gonads, or whatever the body part of the moment is. So yes, the assumption gender identity is determined by/ reducible to “biological sex”

😂

Their issues all relate to abusive straight men who are openly abusive straight men. Not men hiding behind the guise of wanting to be women.

This implies that transwomen are harmless. How does one tell the difference? Transwomen are no less harmful than straight men just because they 'hide behind the guise of wanting to be women' FYI.

It's up to you. Now is your chance.

Right, but why do you think everyone here thinks gender identity is determined by biological sex?

Tandora · Today 11:08

Because they want to pretend that there is no difference between a real woman and a transwoman

But there are very obvious differences.

and they are abusive males who don't care about the price real women pay for that.

Gender extremists don't care, they demand 100% compliance with their wants. They refuse the option of third spaces, because they want to impose on women and force people to "believe" that they are women.

Numerous women have written of how they have been frightened and intimidated by transw in toilets, for example.

Some insist on being allowed to compete in female sports, denying that they have huge, insurmountable physical advantages, which makes participation for women practically meaningless.

They are out and out supremacists and want women to know their place and serve them by forgoing their own needs to look after the precious men.

What's controversial about that? Look at Willoughby, for example, constantly claiming that they is 100% woman and female and a better woman than any actual woman.

I'm sure there are perfectly pleasant transw, who go quietly about their lives, bothering no one, but there are many who simply wish to impose themselves and their will, despite women explaining why it's detrimental to them.

Million dollar question and one no one will answer. Prove me wrong Tandora! tell me why sports need to be mixed sex but separated by gender identity and tell me how many categories we then need to ensure that all 100 genders get a fair race.

I also work in safeguarding. I've had a 6'4 rapist who is an absolute menace and danger to women stand and tell me he's a woman, that he should be recorded as a woman and be placed with women. Nope nope nope.

I won't collude in that lie.

And if TRA had their way, all of the spaces where we want to keep women safe, all the single sex spaces will be open to men. You can’t say ‘these are single sex spaces - oh but we’re open to some men as well’. Either a space is single sex or it isn’t, either a women’s refuge is single sex or it isn’t, either a rape support group for women is single sex or it isn’t. Once men are let in under the guise of declaring they feel like women then the door is open for all men.