Six year old completely burnt out from school.

[primaryproblems]

Dd6 is fine during the holidays and weekends but can't cope with the long school days, she comes home emotional and breaks down into tears saying it's all too much, she can't handle being in school all day and all week only having 2 days off and spends most evenings crying over anything and everything one thing after another.
She begs me not to send her to school because she's too tired and I feel completely helpless because I have to force her to go.
I completely understand how she feels but there's nothing I can do.
She asked if she can have one day off in the middle of the week to rest which sounds quite reasonable given how burn out she is but I'm not in a position to authorise that.
If an adult was completely overwhelmed and burn out like this they'd be signed off sick but talking to the school doesn't help, they just say she's fine once she's here, she'll get through it but they don't see her when she comes home and then there's homework and reading to get on with when she's passed out on the sofa too tired to even eat.
She's always in bed by 7 and sound asleep by 10 past that's if she hasn't fallen asleep before hand and been carried up and she is soo tired int the morning.
I feel so bad it seems like child cruelty to me but no matter how much she talks to me my hands are tied because the law says she should be in school because all the other children can cope.

@Superscientist what industry do you work in?

@cosynightshome you keep coming on and accusing me of not understanding when I have consistently agreed with you that the way society is set up is not ideal.

Your deaf and blind example is actually an excellent one. Because the reality is that it's a sad and annoying truth that deaf and blind people, even with a lot more understanding and tools for accessibility, still can't do many of the jobs and activities that people who aren't deaf or blind can do. It is not routine, for example, for all materials and training and written communication to be provided in braille or in a spoken format for blind people. So they are forced to work harder or make different choices than are necessarily available for everyone else.

You say: It's no good saying yeah but in the real world because that is the real world.
Statistics show most people with ND are unemployed or struggle to hold a job down and that's because they are working in an environment that isn't sustainable.

While I'm not entirely sure that most ND people are unemployed, I do accept the underlying point - the set up is shit for them and it's much much harder. And that should change.

In the meantime however, I am going to continue to try to help my DS find tools that will allow him to cope and to adapt because unfortunately, that is something I CAN do. Making wholesale changes to the way the employment market works is not.

And to go back to the OP - the best option for her child is not to simply stop going to school. It's to find a way for her to continue to get an education. And if that means she needs to take some medicine because she's got a physical problem, she should. And if it means that in the classroom the teacher needs to give her more breaks/time alone etc, then that's what should happen. But neither of those things can happen if the view is simply, "oh well, she doesn't like school so let it go"

Brilliant post, perfectly put.

I'm NT, but 7yo dd is ND and so much of this strikes a chord. She's in mainstream education and really struggled last year in particular. This year she has a fantastic teacher who just seems to 'get it'. She's quite young so she's gone through training very recently, but that training has obviously included lots of methods and strategies that also suit kids whose brains are wired a little differently and who consequently learn in a different way. Small adjustments make a huge difference. She's absolutely thrived and made so much progress it's unbelievable. If we can do that on a broader scale, imagine what could be achieved and the value that ND people could bring to businesses.

But teaching, and teachers, is so variable that I live in fear of the next time her needs are not well understood.

Being deliberately vague scientific research which does have high levels of ND but our company was still above the average for the sector

@Whatafustercluck I hear you. DS final year at primary was transformed by a teacher who not only got it, but fought for all the accommodations he needed to thrive.

High school hasn't been bad, but I do find myself having the same conversation with a LOT of teachers... "You do know he has ADHD and that there are supposed to be measures in place to help him manage that...."

I think from your responses you’ve not seen the GP about it?

That would be a good next step I think.

Is it that she’s tired or is it that there’s school issues? Friendships? A teacher she doesn’t like? Maybe underlying issues like dyslexia making her struggle? And it’s coming out in the only way she knows how to express herself. I agree is does seem a lot more extreme than I’ve experienced with my two.

I'm also from Europe and fully agree. It's very long day!

Sorry, HNRWT, but why is she not going to bed at 5pm? why at 7 and only sleeps at 10pm?- that's very very late for everyone under 11 and more so, for someone who is TIRED and EXCHAUSTED.

ok, read some more posts and pp say, she is asleep at 7:10pm.

try going to bed at 5pm. or ask her to nap as soon as she gets in.

have a pick me up fruit on way home from school.

she could be deficient in vitamins.

before coming to mn, gp was your first port of call. everything will stem from there, or not.

some kids hate school. some kids find the hours long. some kids are sick. you won't know which until you have seen a gp.

We had that when our child was in reception. He only managed to do 3 hrs a day, with mid-week break (this was in Sep 2020). He slept 12 hrs already, always exhausted. Bloodwork came back normal bar mild deficiency of vitamin D.
3 years later he is still on/off like that. He is home educated though so can rest when he needs to.
we think it's probably long covid as he was sick for a weekwith temp of 41. It's quite odd as it took 2 years to get him to a 'fit' state and he took up lots of clubs, sports, back to normal and then he relapses.
His brother is neurodivergent and I suspect husband too.
He has ARFID, so won't eat anything out of his narrow food range. He would rather go hungry than eat anything he can't eat. Maybe something else to look at?

Aww poor thing. That must be so upsetting for you and her.

I have to say 10pm to fall asleep is very late though. especially for a 6 year old. What time does she wake up?

they advice a 6 yr old get about 10.5 hours sleep. So falling asleep at 10pm she should be waking up at 8:30ish.

I would suggest trying 7pm get ready for bed, 7:30 - 7:45 lights out.

also try to keep an eye out for a few nights and see if she is waking up during the night and having a wonder round?

my 8 yr old has adhd and wasn’t sleeping (as pretending to sleep when I checked in his room) so the gp gave me something to give him for a couple of weeks to help him sleep and stay asleep, which was enough time for him to form a habit of going to bed and staying in bed.

he is now much less tired, irritable etc

Good luck 🤞

I would suggest that a trip to see the GP would be sensible as this level of absolute exhaustion isn’t normal in a young child. Do you have a history of diabetes or thyroid problems in your families? Both of these types of illness cause extreme tiredness without obvious cause (ie stayed up all night for nights on end etc etc)

kids can be deficient in some key vitamins or minerals which can affect them, but definitely worth a check up x

Anxiety would make her very tired, make sure that is locked into too if no physical reason is found.

Just as a thought, have you had her tested for dyslexia? It could be she is struggling to read and thereforeexhaustedby the end of the day? Likewise get her eyes checked in case there is any weakness causing her to be tired x

This little girl really needs to see a doctor, she’s struggling either physically or mentally, whatever the cause, it needs investigation.
A few people have mentioned diabetes.
The symptoms of diabetes are Thirst. Toilet. Tiredness and Thinner. They don’t disappear at weekends or holidays. My granddaughter (7 at the time) had to be peeled out of bed every morning. Even after a good ten hours sleep. She was diagnosed with Type I diabetes on Oct 2022. She had all four symptoms the thirst was during that heatwave in 2022, we thought the excessive drinking and peeing was due to that, she’s an active child, the tiredness was put down to that, she lost weight but she’d had growth spurt. It was when she started wetting the bed that alarm bells started. Her mum took her to the gp who sent her straight to A&E. She was taken straight into intensive care. She’s insulin dependent and is coping well.

I can see it's already been said but your daughter is masking and is almost certainly on the autistic spectrum.

Most schools are unfortunately appallingly bad at spotting autistic girls. The more common disruptive nature of an autistic boy is the one thing they seem to notice.

Ask for a CAMHs referral. It will sadly take years. I have an autistic teenage girl. I wish I'd known much earlier what we were dealing with.

I don't care how tired he is if my 6yr old had a tantrum in public he'd be grounded and have all his toys confiscated, it's not normal or acceptable for a 6yr old to be having tantrums that is something a toddler does. I'd be having her checked for SEN or a developmental delay

Certainly get her checked for health issues just in case. But keep in mind that most western Europeans consider the UK primary school day obscenely long. English (and Irish) children also start 2-3 years earlier than kids in most European countries.

This has been proven to be terrible for child development. A 6 year old is constantly playing catchup because the academic work thats expected is beyond what most 6 year olds can deal with developmentally. In Germany she'd be 8 in the same class. In Finland she wouldn't be starting primary school until next year.

Homework in primary school has also been shown time and again to be unnecessary and useless pedagogicaly.

There's a good 50 years of legitimate research backing this up.

It could be that there's nothing wrong with her. She's just objectively young to be in school.

At the very least excuse her from homework, and do what you can to get her that day off.

My daughter struggled with the transition to year 1, she is a very, shall we say, slow and steady child (abit of a sloth 😂) and I think it was all abit much for her too. She has hypermobility and that can also tire you out, she used to cry going up and down stairs or walking much. Does your daughter ever get growing pains at night, particularly in her legs? Mine was very emotional during most of year 1 and all teachers told me that a lot of children struggle with it, because like you said it is a lot less play than reception. Perhaps your daughter is tired out because of it being much more mentally taxing and when she has to sit and behave all day she of course will let it all out on you when she gets home.

My daughter has been absolutely fine now she is in year 2, she loves school now. She also had some friendship issues which added to it, does your daughter have many friends? It does sound like an unusual level of exhaustion since she sleeps and eats well, it would be a good idea to get her checked out by a GP. My daughter also did extra curricular clubs too. I have three other children who have not been this way, so I know it is not really the norm.

This is a good article on the subject of school starting age:

"Research consistently indicates that there is no educational advantage to an early school start, finding that children who are taught literacy skills from age 5 do not do better in the long run than those who start at age 7. Worse, early academic training can produce long term harm, not only academically but also in terms of social, emotional and mental health development.
A 2015 study from Stanford University found strong evidence that delaying school start for one year provided mental health benefits that last later into childhood until age 11. This allowed children to have better self-regulation and attention and less hyperactivity when they do start school."

https://www.tudublin.ie/explore/news/why-are-we-pushing-children-to-start-school-so-early.html#:~:text=Research%20consistently%20indicates%20that%20there,who%20start%20at%20age%207.

So much of what you've described sounds like how my autistic DD was too. School described her as fine, happy, chatty and bubbly. It took me YEARS to realise she is not chatty at all at home, and this whole bubbly persona was her masking. It ended badly for us, totally burnt out by Y6 (and I mean autistic burnout, so regression in multiple areas, washing, dressing, communicating, accessing hobbies, unable to attend school, became mostly housebound and still recovering/struggling 2 years on).

This was despite school agreeing child was autistic, them speaking to us about various struggles (friendships, "being very rude without meaning to be" I.e direct autistic communication, black and white understanding, struggling to follow instructions in class) and then an NHS diagnosis the standard few years later. Hence why there wasn't enough support by half until DD hit crisis, and then there were lots of accommodations made.

DD is also diagnosed combined type ADHD via CAMHS.

She is bright, did used to seem outgoing, would talk to anyone, had various hobbies. It took me a good long while and 3 years of school hinting to twig they meant autism as girls mask so well ans present so differently.

Go to the GP. Rule out other physical causes. Maybe look again at autism. I could have written so much of your posts! Except social skill differences were clear with my DD, but I just thought she was quirky. And dyspraxic.

Oh- and if school would have allowed flexi-sxhooling I'd 100% have done that!

Forcing my child to school dominated our lives for years. It is the biggest relief now she doesn't attend (though also very sad she is still unable to access academic education despite being bright)

I would get her checked out at the GP. My DD6 can be grumpy when she leaves school, but it’s usually hanger, and she has something to eat and she’s fine. We do lots of after school clubs and activities too. My other DD has IDA and has prescribed iron and I saw a huge improvement in her moods and her tiredness.

if she’s tired I wouldn’t worry about the homework, we are usually too busy to do ours anyway

I work with a similar age group and haven't heard of a child as exhausted as this. (1/3 of these children are neurodivergent) I would definitely speak to a GP. The teacher is with them for over 6 hrs a day & doesn't have concerns.