Is it me or are school being petty?

[stilllivingoutofboxes]

I know there's been a few articles on here recently about school standards and this definitely isn't a school/teacher bashing question. But I'm just wondering why there seems to be massive differences in expectations between schools in terms of uniform rules, etc.

For context, we moved house at Christmas. Children are at new schools, youngest 2 girls at primary and eldest daughter in Y8 at a 'good' high school. Primary school seems to be fine, and girls are happy and settled. Eldest on the other hand seems to be having trouble meeting the standards of the new secondary school, having been managing well at her previous school.

She's had uniform detentions twice already this term for her uniform not meeting the required standards. And it's (to me) seemingly petty things. Like the fact that her shirt will come untucked during the day and she'll get told off for it showing from under her jumper. So she'll tuck it back in, but later in the day it might happen again. Or the fact that she seems to keep having tie issues. The tie has a logo which must show just below the knot of the tie. She's just about mastered tying the tie to make that happen. But then she'll get told off because the tie has slipped down and the logo has gone below her jumper and can't be seen.

I don't know what to do really. She'll leave the house looking smart, but then by the nature of her being quite an active child it obviously becomes less smart during the day. And I'm concerned that she'll start to become paranoid about it.

It does sound petty, but then I completely disagree with blazers and ties for school children. It seems outdated and unnecessary.

I used to go to a school where the uniform seemed to be their top priority- checks every day and on a Friday an even longer check. I feel for your daughter. Someone asked above how your tie slips, it absolutely does and it’s one of the tricks in learning how to tie a tie- the issue isn’t in the tieing, it’s in tieing it so it doesn’t lower over your morning! Best of luck on it, yadnbu but it is something unfortunately you’re both going to have to figure out x

Both my dc wore ties from reception to year 13.

edit: I can’t see how a tie ‘slips’ throughout the day?? Dc even when in primary would come home with their ties looking the same as when they left and they did literally run around throughout the day.

Does it matter where I live? We can choose a school where I live and submit a placing request if outside catchment - there’s a big wide world out there.

This was completely normal when I was in primary. It was much later the polo shirt business came in. I'd like DC to wear a proper uniform really

I think it depends on what it is. My neice is like this, had an attitude toward all her teachers and now it's biting her in the ass. I do agree that some teachers are just petty, but I also think rules are rules and they're there for a reason and if I felt this strongly I wouldn't send my children somewhere that was so misaligned to my values

Just wondering if you really think teachers want to be policing this sort of rubbish? This comes from SLT and often from the MATs above them. But I got told off for not sending a letter home to child’s family who were mid-house move and had lost 1 school shoe. I said it was fine to wear trainers as had spoken to mum and the child was otherwise always sorted, it was a simple over sight in the chaos of moving. I was told a reminder should have been sent anyway! It’s stupid and takes away from what I’m actually supposed to be doing.

99% of the classroom rules are “unlawful” in your eyes. Ie not falling under national law. Not talking in class, turning up to lessons on time, doing homework …

the school will tell you that high uniform standards equals high exam standards or bullying or whatever. However studies show wearing a uniform makes no difference. Not a jot. In other countries children don’t even wear uniform, however in the U.K. some schools are particularly obsessed with children looking identical and conforming. To me this seems more about control and image.

The main thing is what does your dd feel about the detentions? if she’s upset I’d approach the school and explain. However it’s likely the school will be inflexible. You could also try buying longer shirts or ties on elastic.

If your DD is unhappy at the school generally it might be time to look at other schools and do a trial week elsewhere.

i can’t see why schools need such restrictive uniforms when actually kids need to be more physical for long term health. Surely a sweatshirt, t shirt and jogging bottoms would suffice?

There's a primary school near us that has ties from reception, so you've got some just turned 4 year olds in ties.
I ruled it out immediately based on that alone.

My secondary was really strict. I used to tuck my shirt into my tights before putting on my skirt. Ties are best knotted properly then stitched and a clip put on the back (cut the neck off) to clip onto the collar.

It's not about the uniform! It's about discipline, pride etc. Dressing like a slob usually makes you feel like a slob.

I am really not a fan of school uniform but I don't see how a tie would slip. They just don't. I have a lot more sympathy for the shirt coming untucked though. I am long-bodied and slim. Pretty much everything I wear comes untucked. Tucking it into tights as another poster suggested might help.

My DS is in year 7 and he's had three days in isolation this term because other kids in his class has ripped his tie off him(all messing around with one another) and broke the clip but it's £5 for a new tie which I've paid for 4 so far and I've emailed school to say I won't be buying another tie now it keeps getting broke and now I've asked his teacher to take his new one off him at home time and give it him back in the morning and to make sure during the day he's not getting it snatched off him! He seems to be only one going into isolation for the day when his tie does get snatched and broken, ties are stupid on high school kids anyway they should just stick with shirt, cardigan/jumper and blazer

My 7 y old manages fine with a tie (y2, ties it himself) so it can't be that bad. He's never grumbled about it either.

Check the fit of all her uniform. If the shirt is a proper formal shirt of a style to be tucked in it should be ok. Make sure its not that you/she have opted for more of a fashion blouse that isn't necessarily intended to be tucked in. Also check that the jumper is big enough. Lots of teenage girls want the jumper to be snug fitting to look cool but it can mean the jumper rides up and it can contribute to pulling the shirt out of the skirt/trouser waistband.

Loza12 can you get a proper tie? Clip on/elastic ones are notorious for this.

Blazers and ties are so outdated in my opinion. We've been slowly drifting from the suited and booted office culture for adults, I can't fathom why we need to put 11 year olds in such a formal set up. You can be smart in more comfortable clothing.
DD school (now left at 18) was super strict even down to socks. Absolutely no colour other than solid black. DD was given a detention once for having a green toe and heel on a sock which you couldn't even see with shoes on. A teacher spotted the sock when she was changing shoes for PE.
DS school now does enforce the uniform but is more reasonable and relaxed. DS once broke his school shoes at 7am before school started and they let him attend in trainers whereas DD school wouldn't have. She would have had to miss a day (bonkers).

To check that the logo on her tie is in the exact right place, she would need a mirror; perhaps she should carry one around with her and check at regular intervals. No doubt the school would then make a new rule - no mirrors to be brought to school!

My ds had one since Y1 and he was 5! I don't agree but it is the uniform.

Go tell that to most of the kids in Europe! That’s exactly what they wear to school.

Do you really think OP had much choice? Anyway she bought the uniform, her DD wears the uniform. I doubt she had any way of knowing that the school would be so persnickety about policing the uniform. And how so you know the other children can manage? As the school is so picky, I doubt OP’s child is the only one to be punished for these things.

It’s not so 1950s. In those days there were way more schools with no uniform at all, including practically all primary schools where I lived. And while many secondary schools had uniforms with ties, checking where the stripes or logos sit is very much a thing of the 2000s!

It's about teaching the child that how they physically oresent themselves has an impact on how they are percieved in preparation for the work place.

Why do people persist in repeating this utter nonsense?

Is she overweight? That's tgd only thing I can think of if she's not untucking herself.

And why the need to get in this nasty dig? Perhaps the DD is slim so shirts in her size are a bit on the short side!