Is it me or are school being petty?

[stilllivingoutofboxes]

I know there's been a few articles on here recently about school standards and this definitely isn't a school/teacher bashing question. But I'm just wondering why there seems to be massive differences in expectations between schools in terms of uniform rules, etc.

For context, we moved house at Christmas. Children are at new schools, youngest 2 girls at primary and eldest daughter in Y8 at a 'good' high school. Primary school seems to be fine, and girls are happy and settled. Eldest on the other hand seems to be having trouble meeting the standards of the new secondary school, having been managing well at her previous school.

She's had uniform detentions twice already this term for her uniform not meeting the required standards. And it's (to me) seemingly petty things. Like the fact that her shirt will come untucked during the day and she'll get told off for it showing from under her jumper. So she'll tuck it back in, but later in the day it might happen again. Or the fact that she seems to keep having tie issues. The tie has a logo which must show just below the knot of the tie. She's just about mastered tying the tie to make that happen. But then she'll get told off because the tie has slipped down and the logo has gone below her jumper and can't be seen.

I don't know what to do really. She'll leave the house looking smart, but then by the nature of her being quite an active child it obviously becomes less smart during the day. And I'm concerned that she'll start to become paranoid about it.

It's utterly ridiculous. Doesn't sound like a good school at all. Not with dumb rules like that. If my boss kept on at me like that over things like my top or tie moving I'd have anxiety about going in and getting it 'wrong' everyday. If I was repeatedly punished over my clothing I'd call the union and get signed off sick. Back in the day detention was for actually being naughty.

What makes me laugh at my children's school, the one where all children aged seven plus are required to wear a tie, is that the only time I've seen the headteacher wearing one was when they had Ofsted in!

I can't believe someone else's child had to wear one in reception! Surely that's a hazard on such young children who do lots of play based learning, having something that can pull tight around their necks? Not to mention an absolute ballache for the teachers. Most 4/5 year olds struggle to do up coats and shoes at first, never mind a bloody tie!

I'm in Scotland and my oldest started primary at 4 and she had to wear a tie from the start. She's now 7 and rarely bothers with it. School haven't said anything.

I just can’t get my head around the standards schools hold children up to. It is genuinely less strict in prison. If I was ever granted one wish to change the school system I would 100% change school uniforms from uncomfortable polyester blazers and ties to standard active wear (leggings and T-shirts or polo shirts). Still smart but lets children be comfortable so they can Dou us on actually learning.

I forgot to answer OPs AIBU. Yes OP school are petty but those the rules you agreed to when you sent her there.

My children have to wear proper shirts and ties at age 7. I think that's beyond ridiculous, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the KS1uniform of polo shirts with the school jumpers or cardigans.

But it's a good school otherwise, so I sick it up and accept it. That's the uniform, that's the rules.

I'd tell you daughter not to fiddle about with her tie (they don't just come loose) and make sure her shirt fits. If it does she needs to keep an eye on it.

I don't agree with it, it's stupid. But you won't change the school.

It doesn’t matter what “rules” you have agreed to. Rules only count when they are backed by law. The prime law is that the school has a statutory obligation to protect educate your child. And the school is obliged to act in line with UN Charter 31 regards to the rights of the child.

if our school makes up a new rule and I don’t like it, they are told “no”.

My daughters primary wear one. She is only 5 now and started wearing it at 4. I think it's ridiculous for primary but I think it's normal in secondary.

To be clear, I don't have any issue with the uniform in itself. I know that many don't like uniform but it works for me and my children in terms of knowing what's to be worn each day; it's just a form of workwear. So they've been used to wearing shirts and ties since reception.
And I don't have an issue with the school requiring pupils to look smart. Eldest wasn't keen on having to wear the tie done up properly but she's got used to it and besides everyone else does too.
What I wasn't expecting was the degree of attention to detail.

Have you written a step by step book on how to be "that parent" or is it still in press? 🙄

There’s always only one winner so far. Some people don’t want to stand up for their kids - that’s on them.

I loved my school tie! I think it makes a uniform look so much more stylish!

I think it's a bit much. I'm trying to think of ways you could secure the tie or keep her shirt tucked and I can't. She's going to have to check herself after breaks.

As long as they apply the same rule to all pupils she just needs to learn to comply. A tie fastened properly would not slip to that extent, but a loose knot might.

And people like you are one of the reasons teachers are leaving in droves , if you don’t like the rules remove your child and educate it yourself . If you seriously think that going in and complaining will make your little snowflake exempt from the rules then you are wrong , you will just be labelled as ‘one of those parents’ and your child will be one of those that is constantly in trouble .

I agree it's ridiculous. I've not worn a tie since school. I wear jeans to work, for a senior role. I want my team to wear what makes them comfortable and happy, so they can focus on their job.

What exactly are these uniforms "preparing" students for?

Goodness…we don’t need to look far to see why children are so rude and dismissive to their teachers.

they would back down very quickly and would wish they had never messed with my child

In every school I’ve worked in you’d be banned from the premises and your child would end up expelled if he/she followed your advice to ignore school rules and sanctions.

OP, I think UK school uniforms are daft and it sounds like her school is particularly ridiculous. But she’ll get used to it.

It is petty but to be honest I think most secondary schools are like this , certainly the ones in my area are. Children are not allowed to remove blazers even in 30 degrees plus heat. They get a detention if the tie is not a certain length or skirt too short , no makeup allowed. Just a few of the rules

It’s Article 28 you want, and it’s about the right to an education and also mentions appropriate discipline ie school rules. The school isn’t obliged to provide your child with the rules and education they would like, just an appropriate education.

The only thing your approach will get you is a ban from school premises.

She is trying to comply but I don't know what's happening that it's all going wrong! As far as I can tell everything is the correct size for her. I can't see that she's doing anything different now to what she did in her previous school only a couple of months ago. The only thing that's changed is the way in which the school approaches the appearance of pupils, and is picking up on every little thing that might be wrong with it during the course of a day.
As a comparison, I work as a PA. Some days I'm sat at a desk for hours, others I can be running around. And there have been many times when I've realised that my shirt has come untucked from my skirt because I've been bending or reaching to retrieve files from drawers or shelves, or my skirt has become twisted from walking around a lot. But I don't have the mindset to be checking these things every 5 minutes.

In their faces? Over the top and aggressive. Good luck physically letting yourself into the school, you know people can’t just walk in to a school right? Plus I’m sure you’ll be getting a ban from the premises as soon as you start up with your aggression issues.

Does she wear a blazer or a jumper? If it's a jumper or both I'd recommend buying a bigger jumper as it will be longer and will hide a shirt that untucks itself. My child is only in primary school but on the day they wear the shorter jumper it is always obvious that the shirt is untucked. However this won't solve the problem in the summer.

Stupid uniform rules are nothing new. I went to school in the late 70s and early 80s. Skirts had to be an inch below the knee. This involved buying a longer skirt and hemming it to the right length. Shoes no more than 1/2 inches high, measured. we aren't allowed to wear our white blouses without either a blazer or jumper in case the boys saw our bras.

You'll laugh at it in years to come and so will your daughter.

What is the point of this ridiculous nonsense? Genuinely? How does that help students to learn? In any way?

Are schools not there to educate students and one would hope treat them as human beings while so doing?